regulator/recitifer question - Kawasaki Forum :: KawasakiWorld.com
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post #1 of 18 Old 04-26-2014, 04:01 AM Thread Starter
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regulator/recitifer question

Hey Guys, one quick question.
I replace melted plug (stator) with some other plugs.
When I want to connect yellow wires with white ones, is there any order?
Can I connect no matter which just white with yellow and thats all?

Regards Tom
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post #2 of 18 Old 04-26-2014, 04:15 AM
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Any order it won't matter :)
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post #3 of 18 Old 04-26-2014, 04:21 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Mauser, that what I thought. So I guess stator need to be preplaced.
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post #4 of 18 Old 04-29-2014, 03:05 PM
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Hi ,
I think this diagram can help you !
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post #5 of 18 Old 04-29-2014, 03:09 PM
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Diagram of rectifier.
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File Type: png Rectifier.png (95.6 KB, 22 views)
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post #6 of 18 Old 04-29-2014, 07:49 PM
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Theoretically.......no, it shouldn't matter.

Do I think it does?......yes I think it does.

I cut and pasted mine the way they were in the plug. My thinking is that if it didn't matter, the plug would not have been designed the way it was. Coulda done a much smaller plug orienting all the connections the same way, but they made the plug round with a thing in there so it only went together one way.

My thoughts on that.

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What's wrong with you people? The sky is MANY colors throughout the day....not JUST BLUE!
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post #7 of 18 Old 04-29-2014, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by my12r View Post
Theoretically.......no, it shouldn't matter.

Do I think it does?......yes I think it does.

I cut and pasted mine the way they were in the plug. My thinking is that if it didn't matter, the plug would not have been designed the way it was. Coulda done a much smaller plug orienting all the connections the same way, but they made the plug round with a thing in there so it only went together one way.

My thoughts on that.
We keep having this conversation about these wires, and you have not convinced me that Kawasakis workers have a method @ assembly to pick certain yellow wires from other yellow wires lol..... The plug is not designed for Kawasaki, but probably a generic plug which in some other application it would need polarity....and the size is probably to allow for electrical isolation.....
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post #8 of 18 Old 04-29-2014, 11:51 PM
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The rectifier adds up all 3 AC phases and rectifies the sum to DC. They all end up in the same place in the rectifier, it doesn't matter up which cable each phase travels. The regulator then limits the DC voltage for battery charging and powering the bike.

On a bike like a 2 stroke with a CDI, the 3 stator wires are colour coded as the CDI needs to trigger the spark at the correct time.
Your bike has an ECU and sensors for timing, it has no interest in the phases coming from the stator.

When my plug welded itself together I just cut it out and binned it. Soldered the 3 joints and used adhesive lined heatshrink over them. As standard, the oil wicks up between the multistrand wires and between the wires and the insulation into the plug. The oil cannot wick up the inside of a solid, soldered joint and cannot wick past the adhesive. I did this a few years ago with no problems. Replacing with 3 individual plugs would also be a decent solution.

If at first you don't succeed....take a longer run up!!
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post #9 of 18 Old 04-30-2014, 03:15 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Guys for all answers. I dont know what is going on.
Now I have 13,5v while bike running so its better (it was 12,7V).
I dont know its stator fault or recitifer. :)
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post #10 of 18 Old 04-30-2014, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
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The rectifier adds up all 3 AC phases and rectifies the sum to DC. They all end up in the same place in the rectifier, it doesn't matter up which cable each phase travels. The regulator then limits the DC voltage for battery charging and powering the bike.

On a bike like a 2 stroke with a CDI, the 3 stator wires are colour coded as the CDI needs to trigger the spark at the correct time.
Your bike has an ECU and sensors for timing, it has no interest in the phases coming from the stator.

When my plug welded itself together I just cut it out and binned it. Soldered the 3 joints and used adhesive lined heatshrink over them. As standard, the oil wicks up between the multistrand wires and between the wires and the insulation into the plug. The oil cannot wick up the inside of a solid, soldered joint and cannot wick past the adhesive. I did this a few years ago with no problems. Replacing with 3 individual plugs would also be a decent solution.
If two of the wires were in contact with each other between the stator and the rectifier, what would happen?
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post #11 of 18 Old 04-30-2014, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Mauser View Post
We keep having this conversation about these wires, and you have not convinced me that Kawasakis workers have a method @ assembly to pick certain yellow wires from other yellow wires lol..... The plug is not designed for Kawasaki, but probably a generic plug which in some other application it would need polarity....and the size is probably to allow for electrical isolation.....

Haha. Sometimes I'm not sure I convince myself of things, but I do try.

Could be just a bulk plug used off the shelf to connect the pieces. I'm not in the line, so to speak too intelligently on the plugs design is out of my realm....haha.

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post #12 of 18 Old 04-30-2014, 07:29 PM
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If two of the wires were in contact with each other between the stator and the rectifier, what would happen?
There is more than just diodes in the rectifier. There is also a regulator circuit in there which governs DC output. The diodes only convert the AC into DC because of their current direction limiting.

Someone with a junk rectifier/regulator should cross section that bad boy so we can see all of the electrics in there and see just how the thing is wired up.....

To answer the question, if you are talking touching wires on the AC IN side, there would be a short for the stator and it would fail. The AC current is funneled into the diodes via circuitry. What that entails, I dunno right at this moment, but I guess I could go look at the schematic.........

"In a world full of hate.....There is nothing left to divide."
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What's wrong with you people? The sky is MANY colors throughout the day....not JUST BLUE!

Last edited by my12r; 04-30-2014 at 07:31 PM.
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post #13 of 18 Old 04-30-2014, 10:25 PM
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If two of the wires were in contact with each other between the stator and the rectifier, what would happen?
That's exactly what is happening in the plugs. Oil is allowing conduction between 2 or more phases. It causes more heat and power loss.
When I wrote that they all end up in the same place, it was an over simplification. The 3 rectified phases will be summed giving a reasonably smooth DC output.

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post #14 of 18 Old 05-01-2014, 12:15 AM
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That's exactly what is happening in the plugs. Oil is allowing conduction between 2 or more phases. It causes more heat and power loss.
When I wrote that they all end up in the same place, it was an over simplification. The 3 rectified phases will be summed giving a reasonably smooth DC output.
I'm wondering how the rectifier 'interprets' the conduction between the phases. Does it receive more voltage/amps or less? As the stator turns, it generates a set amount of AC current at each phase in turn. Is a weak, 'false' signal sent trough the other 2 phases, and is it enough to 'confuse' the rectifier?

I only have a very basic knowledge of electronics, but I hope you will understand what I'm trying to ask.


The following was posted by Duck00 in another thread. He has put a great deal of effort into trying to get to the bottom of this -

Over past month my stator has been rewound, and new cable put on, today I fitted the new JAPAN made Mosfet Reg/Rec supplied by the bloke I'm getting to do the work, and the renewed stator and road the bike under battery power to his shop so he could do the connector fitting to ensure it's correct.

The Reg/Rec comes with extra connectors and the manufacturer recommends new wiring from the Reg/Rec to the battery, as it is thought this is an area where small defects in the original line will cause lack of sufficient charging to the battery. I had mine fitted with the extra wiring that fits directly from the reg/rec to the battery pos and neg terminals. Still my battery, a SSB brand put on by the previous owner is a bit suspect, so I will replace with a YUASA original battery. The electrician said these batteries are the standard to go by.

I will let all know how it goes. It was costly at a total of $730 Aus including labour, but in the long run I'm hoping it works finally.

Interestingly he said a common problem with stators nowadays is they make the gap between the stator and alternator/wheel too close, and believe it or not the problem of too much heat from the alternator causing the stator to act as a heat sink is exacerbated after riding for a while then stopping, such as at a café etc., then the heat builds up and causes more stator burn out over time!!

Their fix is to put lower output wiring in the stator as it doesn't give off as much heat as a standard stator, thus not causing as much wiring problems along the line.

We will see....

Don.


Always seems to come down to heat, doesn't it? Does anyone know what the gap between rotor and stator measures out to be? Or what happens to output as that gap is decreased? Has anyone examined a stator they removed for evidence of physical contact with the rotor?

PS My12r, if those plugs had been purpose-designed by Kawasaki, they would come with little oil sumps attached.......

Last edited by rundog; 05-01-2014 at 12:19 AM.
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post #15 of 18 Old 05-01-2014, 01:51 AM
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My head hurts thinking nowadays. It's 25 years since I was last tested on this stuff and never used it since.
Two 120degree phases connected will partially cancel each other out resulting in a more of a weak AC pulse than two individual sine waves. This would leave the rectifier with not much to work with. It could rectify it but the result would be lower voltage and a DC that would be almost impossible to smooth.
I think the biggest problem would be at the stator and plug side. I have not done short circuit testing on AC outputs but theoretically, there will be a current surge between the two windings which dies away. I assume this would happen upon each start up if there is a permanent short across the phases in the plug or each time oil builds up to form a short.
It is most likely this current that fries the plug and heats up the insulation on the phase wires. In addition to the usual heat that comes up the wires from the stator when it's hot and the rect that runs hot anyway.
Following this along, short all 3 phases and you should get an even larger current surge followed by just about no AC current arriving at the rectifier.
My theory does not explain why a rectifier may be damaged by the shorting in the plug. My plug melted but my rect was fine. I know some have said it killed the rectifier but someone else will have to come up with why. Maybe some of this brief current surge is felt by the rectifier diodes and its all a bit too much for them?
Like I say, my memory of that stuff is hazy now, plus in the day I did enough to pass and spent the rest of the time drinking beer like all students should. Especially as I did my apprenticeship and tech quals in the Royal Navy, beer drinking was a compulsory part of training.

If at first you don't succeed....take a longer run up!!
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