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Bleeding brakes again

This is a discussion on Bleeding brakes again within the ZX-12R forums, part of the Kawasaki Motorcycles category; Ok I put my goodridges on today and new pads on the front. My previous pads were sbs and they didn't last 10 month. I ...


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Old 04-24-2010, 10:58 AM   #1
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Bleeding brakes again

Ok I put my goodridges on today and new pads on the front. My previous pads were sbs and they didn't last 10 month. I know you bleed the res first but do you actually see anything else besides bubbles when you pull the lever etc like a suction motion . I'm using a vacuum bleeder to make the job easier but the lever is still spongy . How long does it take to firstly bleed the res and then the calipers. I was so peeeed last time , ended up at the shop. Going to have another go in the morning the old fashion way and see if that works . Any suggestions would be appreciated .
   
 
Old 04-24-2010, 01:53 PM   #2
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Pump them up and tie the lever back. It will push the bubbles to the top. Did this recently on mine about three times couple hours between each time and let it sit overnight like that. Great lever now.
   
 
Old 04-24-2010, 07:41 PM   #3
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put the MC under vacuum
   
 
Old 04-25-2010, 02:38 AM   #4
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Quote:
Ok I put my goodridges on today and new pads on the front. My previous pads were sbs and they didn't last 10 month. I know you bleed the res first but do you actually see anything else besides bubbles when you pull the lever etc like a suction motion . I'm using a vacuum bleeder to make the job easier but the lever is still spongy . How long does it take to firstly bleed the res and then the calipers. I was so peeeed last time , ended up at the shop. Going to have another go in the morning the old fashion way and see if that works . Any suggestions would be appreciated .
I have done this a number of times with different bikes.
After putting the lines on use the vacuum bleeder to pull brake fluid into the system. Then bleed the reservoir until you no longer see bubbles coming up. The next step is to bleed the calipers the old fashion way. Lastly repeat the reservoir bleeding again over the next day or two just to make sure you got it all. Air in the lines will often rise with time and have to be bleed from the reservoir. To finish bleed them again at the calipers.
   
 
Old 04-25-2010, 05:02 AM   #5
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Had a go this morning , still not getting the desired effect. tied back the lever overnite and bled the old fashion way as well as vacuum but nothing has improved. Im begining to wonder if my super bleeder actually works properly.The pipes are quite long , maybe they should be shorter and I was watching quite lge bubbles only go so far when I pull the bleeder lever then go back up the tube a bit when I let go.
   
 
Old 04-27-2010, 10:48 AM   #6
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Well , bike ended up in the shop this morning . Turns out only 2 pistons actually moved . The brakes have been cleaned up and freed as well as bled again and considering its got braided lines and new pads the lever travel is crap , totaly disappointed with these brakes in fact they are probably the worst I've come across. Going to tie the lever back overnite and perhaps try the calipers again , already checked the res and no bubbles there.
   
 
Old 04-27-2010, 01:40 PM   #7
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Hi MATE I am having the exact same problem its breaking my heart ive changed m/c discs pads and bled the things to my fingures bled still no lever ill keep trying and if i master it it ill give you a shout ,terrible brakes never had this prob on any bike and have had a few with six potters
   
 
Old 04-27-2010, 02:50 PM   #8
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Well as a last resort ( and if you're mechanically inclined ) you can pull the master cylinder apart and make sure that the piston and the bore are nice and clean, no scoring on the walls of the bore, no nicks / leaks on the piston for air to get sucked past, etc... it's a long shot, but if you've bled the system MULTIPLE times and to no avail, then there must be something funky going on.

I did exactly this when I put the new radial m/c on my 12 and my brakes are hard as a rock. ( and stop RIGHT NOW !!! )

D
   
 
Old 04-27-2010, 11:07 PM   #9
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try this as it does work

spanner on the calliper (any side) bleed nipple then undo half a turn and pull lever to the bar and hold.

nip up the nipple.

repeat several times until no air comes out!!

you can also try this method with the system under pressure ie with the leaver pumped up solid.
hold it in the hard on position and just loosen the nipple so the fluid just ouzes out (1 at a time ) repeat on the other calliper.
   
 
Old 04-28-2010, 12:49 AM   #10
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Thanks again for the input everyone . These have been a nightmare but as lonner suggested , i'll manually beed them again and as a last resort its looking at the m/c to see any damage. Its a real shame about this issue with the bike but I suppose any others fitted with these 6 potters suffer as well.
   
 
Old 04-28-2010, 01:00 AM   #11
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How could Kawasaki get so wrong with these brakes , on a bike this powerfull as well ?. I'll do the same if they improve will obviously post.
   
 
Old 04-28-2010, 01:13 AM   #12
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another little thing worth trying is this

take off the calliper and put something similar thickness as the disc (suitable size spanner )
just in the bottom edge of the pads and then pump the lever slowly to make the pistons push the pads closer.

it will then make the pads fit tight onto the disc and this often works as the tokico's seem to pull the pistons back far too much.

ill be honest thou mate i never got mine less than 25mm lever travel with the standard system!!!

i found the mc off a aprillia falco early rsvr works really well and its a brembo item.
you can get them for 30-50 and the lever has huge adjustment and seems to do everything the oe mc cant .
   
 
Old 04-28-2010, 04:53 PM   #13
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.


This is the way to do it, Reverse Bleed.

Replace the master cylinder seals. Always worth while

Free the pistons in the callipers.

Push the pistons all the way back into the calliper bodies.

(Reverse bleed with the callipers on the forks)

Attach a clear hose to a 'washing up' liquid bottle'
( after you have cleaned and dried it )

Fill the bottle with clean brake fluid.

Attach the other end of the hose to a bleed nipple on one calliper.

Keep the bottom of the bottle 'UP' so you don't push air into the calliper

Carefully squeeze the bottle, and force brake fluid into the calliper,
and up the brake line to the master cylinder.

You will see some fluid and plenty of air at the master cylinder.

Tighten the bleed nipple.

Then do the other calliper the same.

You may have to remove some brake fluid from the master cylinder.

Use the bottle 'set up' to suck it out , but don't re-use,
or soak it up with some thing, carefully.

Reverse bleed until no air is seen at the master cylinder.

When your happy that no air is in the brake system,

Check the bleed nipples are tight, and pump your calliper pistons/pads out
to the disc's.

See if the lever is firm.



.

Last edited by drp; 04-28-2010 at 04:56 PM.
   
 
Old 09-19-2011, 02:29 PM   #14
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Over the last few days I have rebuilt my calipers having dismantled them, cleaned them and replaced all of the seals. Then I started the process of trying to bleed them - OMG what a nightmare. I read all of these forums and tried several methods of getting the brakes back with decent level feel / travel. In the end this is what worked for me:

Bleed the brakes starting with the left caliper (furthest from the master cylinder) using clear tubing from the bleed valve into a jar with break fluid in the bottom. Crack open the bleed valve 1/2 turn (or until brake fluid just starts to ooze out) then slowly pull on the lever. Hold the lever whilst tightening the bleed valve. Release the lever then crack open the bleed valve and repeat process of pulling in lever etc. Brake fluid flows into the jar with plenty of bubbles in. Keep an eye on the master cylinder to ensure it does not run dry - keep it topped up to prevent any more air being drawn into brake lines. Having done this on the left caliper until there are not air bubbles I then swapped over to the right hand caliper and repeated.

The lever was still spongy but I pumped it quickly several times and tied it back to the throttle (master cylinder cover back on before doing this) and left it for 4 hours. Undid the tie and slowly let the lever out and now brakes are awesome again! Phew!

Most difficult brakes I have ever bled but maybe next time I will just do the above straight away and hopefully all will be well.
   
 
Old 09-20-2011, 10:32 AM   #15
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I absoultely hate 6pots. Head problems with them on my 9R & ZRX too. I ended up with either Nissin 4pots or Radial conversion. As for the Master cylinder Brembo everytime. Costly yes but WoW what a difference.
   
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