So I was reading a discussion in the classifieds where Hondakiller98 is trying to sell a ZX10 shock because it won't fit on his A model ZX12, but will fit a B model. I had some more questions about this, but seeing as I'm not looking to buy the shock (I've got one to sell myself), I didn't want to muddy up his thread.

Anyhow, what ARE the differences in rear suspension between the A & B models? I wasn't understanding the discussion therein about the unit pro links and such.

My main reason for asking is that I just recently scored a deal on a used Ohlins shock. From my research, it looks to have been for an A model (Ohlins lists on shock for the A's and another for the B's). Figuring the bikes are pretty much the same in the rear (I thought identical actually), I bought it anyhow. I recently installed it on my '02 B. Installed with no problems and I re-used my stock B shock linkage & dogbones. Haven't had a chance to really ride it or play with it much. I did set the sag and set rebound/compression according to Ohlins recommendations.

I notice though that the bike is now setting even higher in the rear than before. I have the height adjustment on the bottom of the shock set to the very shortest setting, yet I'm tip-toeing at best (I'm 5'9" for reference), even worse than before. I'm not one for having a lowered/slammed bike - handling/cornering is of high importance to me, but right now I'm afraid it may be difficult to back out of parking spots, etc. without spilling at some point.

In light of the discussion in the other thread I mentioned, I'm wondering about what parts might be different. For example, do the A's have different length dogbones, or different shock linkeage that I should be using instead?

Sorry so long, but I figured it better to provide complete info in order to get a better diagnosis/recommendation from you guys.

Big difference between that 10 and 12 shock is the reservoir is in a different place because of the bracing on the 10's swingarm.
I always liked the 12 dropped a little bit because it is so tall to begin with.I have adjustable links lowered a little and like a half inch or so in the front.Also if you lower it more in the front it will turn in faster and lower in the back makes it more stable.I personally like it lowered more in the front so it turns a little faster.Stock 12's suspensions are as stable as they come IMO.

The only thing I can say with 100% certainty is they have different part numbers. I know with the change to a 05 ZX-10R rear swingarm I had to do LOTS of work to make sure that it was safe to ride on and that everything fit properly.

In order for the ZX-10R rear shock to fit I had 2mm machined off the bushing inside the linkage. The remote reservoir on a 05 ZX-10R stock shock did not cause problems for me...I had a 6mm shim which lowered the entire assembly and posed no clearance issues. With the Ohlins, I have had to move the plastic tray up slightly (the one that sits below the tank) in order for it not to be resting on the shock.

I have not looked at an A-1 linkage vs. a B model, but HondaKiller98 says that it would be more than minor machining. That is how I found out that they have different model numbers.

In any event I think that 12R shocks fit between the two...like I have said in previous threads the 10R rear shock/swingarm can be done, BUT it is not a straight swap.

Anything for an A model must be superior since the A model is much faster, especially a silver A model.

Silver A model is the fastest 12 made. It is 1 busa eating, B model munchin, Gixxer snackin, R wateva slurppin, all honda devourin and Hd destroyer destroyering MUTHA!!!!!

Hmmmmmmmm.....now say that three times fast!

dunno what the diff is but I bolted an 03 swingarm and shock right onto my 00 A model. I know they have different adjustments, but i really didn't pay much attention to the linkages.

So i bought the 10r shock from edge, who had it installed on his bike. I assumed that the rear suspension was the same from a-b models. I was wrong. A local suspension shop(GP Suspension) had an 04 10r shock that had been revalved and would respring for rider's weight for sale for $300 installed. I thought i'd just get that shock because it was so cheap and resell my 10r shock. When they got my bike on the lift the resovoir was too high to clear the pan. 04-05 10r shock has the res. on the right side, 06-07 10r has the res on left side and is lower on the shock. When the 04 shock didn't fit, he said he'd rework my 07 10r and install for the same price as the special. So he gave me a ride home to pick up the 07 shock(20 miles away) and when he got that one back to his shop, he looked at the unit prolink which is 2.5 mm wider than the 10r clevis. He said that the unit prolink was too wide(not just the inner bushing like on edge's bike), and that he'd have to do a lot of machining and lose the dust seals on the bearings. And remove the swing arm to get the shock into place because it can't be inserted from the bottom(damn sideways resovoir). So he finally told me he would just revalve, service, install a schrader valve, and respring my 12r shock instead and would charge me $350. Which after all of his time i wasted, i thought was more than fair. If any of this isn't clear let me know and i will try to explain.

I agree 100 % except the color...everybody knows GREEN=FASTER....

I can say hondakilla98 is a man of his word and if he has found that there is a difference I would take it at face value.

I have learned that hard way:

1) A 2001 motor is NOT a straight swap into a 2002 frame.

2) A 2004/5 ZX-10R swingarm on a 2002 is an absolute bitch to get done properly. Impressive had no such issues on a 2000.

3) There must be a difference between the linkages on 2000 vs. 2002 models.

4) The 2002 PMB is significantly quicker and faster than the Silver 2000 model! LOL

So if you are considering doing anything to your bike, make sure that it is the right year part, or confrim 100% that it fits first.

ppssssttt...

Everybody knows BLACK is the fastest color.

:)

fastest to disapear behind the a red 2000's lol jk

All very interesting, if not definitive. I wonder if anyone happens to have a set of both the A and B links to compare lengths. Likewise with the "unit pro-links" (that's the joint piece, right?).

I'm trying to remember, but the LONGER the links, the lower the bike....is that right? I put lowering links on my KTM dual-sport a year or so back and I seem to recall that they're slightly LONGER than the stockers.

I had a 00 and a 03 shock side by side; eye to eye the 00 was about 1/4 longer. Haven't pulled out the linkages to compare yet.

Nice thread revival!
I would get a set of 3-hole links, use one lower than stock, and dial in the rest with the shock rid height adjuster. IIRC, the difference in suspension geometry lies in a higher swingarm pivot and different dog bone mounts (farther back) on the swinger.

Yeah, nice to get some more info - even if it's delayed. You're probably right, and I've considered doing that. I really like how the bike handles ATM though (along with lots of ground clearance for my pegs), so I'm reluctant to monkey with it. But I can only touch my toes to the ground right now, which is kind of a pain in parking lot situations, etc. and I'm afraid I'll end up dropping it at some point.

Understood. I raised my rear about 10mm when I installed my new shock and will never go back to stock height. I'm a hair under 6' and can still flat-foot the beast. have you considered chopping your seat? Marcelo's looks awesome, much like the original 12r concept drawings.

oh, and this thread is worthless without a pic of that Swedish beauty.

page 6 of the following outlines the geometry changes:
http://www.zx12r.nl/zx12r/docs/ZX1200B.pdf

I've got a Corbin that I'm pretty happy with, so I don't really want to go carving on that. I guess I can experiment with lowering links and sliding the forks up a bit more to compensate for the lost height in the rear.

I am still wondering about whether the links are different as between the A & B models. I've seen various auctions on ebay for lowering links pretty cheap (like $25 shipped), but they are usually listing as fitting the A's only (along with some other model bikes). I'm betting they'd still work fine enough for me though (and I could use the height adjuster on the Ohlins to help fine tune the height of the rear).

I know not of which you speak specifically; but as a general rule I agree that pictures of a Swedish beauty would improve most any thread.

Cool. Thanks for the link/info. News to me.

the shock

Duh! I uhhh, errr guess my mind was someplace else when you said "Swedish beauty."

It's the ugliest model as well

I agree!!! If it ain't green, it ain't mean!!!

Quaility answer my friend

Call It what you want but if a Busa rider rolls up and sees both an A & B model together they would be more cautious not to talk smack to the Owner of the A MODEL.... And your right about ugly in one respect.... THOSE A MODELS HAND OUT SOME UGLY ASS WHOOPINS WHEN POEPLE COME TRYING TO TEST THE WATERS!!!!!!

I measured the shocks, the B model is 3/8 inch longer eye to eye, slightly stiffer spring as well

Lower links are different as well, I just looked at them a couple days ago and can't remember which is longer... I had the A model p/n 1163 and it raised the rear a bit, gone back to the B model p/n 1177 and it is back to normal.

The lowering links are different as well, between the two models

I don't see much difference in the pivot dog bone between the two.

Glad to finally get some answers to my questions. Interesting that the A links RAISED your bike vs. the B links. Hmmm, I was thinking that using some A links with my A-spec'ed Ohlins shock would bring the rear of my 12 down some. Your info suggests otherwise though. Most puzzling. In any case, looks like I'll need to try out some lowering links (though links for an A or B model, as both are sold???) or invest in some Gene Simmons-inspired riding boots.

I was half asleep and realize that I reversed the shock lengths in my post.. the A is longer than the B... I think... damn!

But the A links do raise the B model, a good bit, like 1.5 inches or so at the rear of the seat. They also changed the leverage enough to make it feel stiffer. I need to take some sag out now; it "feels" softer.

The A shock and links combined are enough to make the chain loose when the bike is unloaded, and barely come off the nylon chain wear plate while riding, not a good thing. Turned in nice and quick tho!

This is how it sat with both...



Better comparison..

A shock and links



A shock with B links



Compare the swingarm angles to the can, heel guard, and the gap between the fairing and rear tire.

Definitely a visible difference in the angle of the swingarm with the different links installed. Curious. AFAIK, in stock form the A & B model bikes sit at or near the same height in the rear. So I wonder if there is a difference in the swingarms as between the A & B.

The shocks are different lengths, as are the links. As long as you have the matching A or B pair, ride height should be real close. I have the A shock on the B model.

The swing arms are made different, but spec out the same, AFAIK. I have a B model on my 00 bike. Only difference I can see is the shock crossmember is cast on the A and a welded box tube on the B.

The seat is different as well; the A has a small rise at the front, and is a little thinner in the middle. The top pic has a B seat on it; in the 2nd and 3rd pic I swapped with my A model since I was sliding up on the tank all the time with the tail in the air... going to a Corbin next.