Bad Rod Bearing.. Please Help... I might be sick. - Kawasaki Forum :: KawasakiWorld.com
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post #1 of 31 Old 04-22-2009, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
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Unhappy Bad Rod Bearing.. Please Help... I might be sick.



So after rebuilding my bike after my summer getoff, and spending a small fortune on motor mods, pieces, and labor, my bike has a "BAD ROD BEARING". The story goes like this..

Bike ran great, even after my spill last year. I save up my $$ to get a bunch of parts, and get my cams degreed and a dyno map. I put about 150 miles on the bike in a few days time after the cams were degreed. After a quick ryde across town, I pulled off the highway and noticed that she didnt sound right. Felt like she still made power, just didnt sound right. I thought it was an exhaust leak. Got new exhaust gaskets, sealed up the new pipe real good with extra clamps... Still sounds the same. Took her back to the same shop that did the work, owner thinks the same thing after a quick listen. Sounds like and exhaust leak. Mentioned that it could have "SLIPPED A SHIM"??? I'm assuming he is talking about my valves, since I got them checked when the cams were getting degreed. Says he'll check her out. Get a call that he found "Rod bearing material" in the oil when he drained it.

The bike starts, runs, revs without problem... but sounds horrible.
1) Does the diagnosis sound good, familiar, bogus, any thoughts???
2) Does $1500 sound reasonable for a new rod, piston, and labor?
3) If the rod has gone bad, is it reasonable to think that the crank could be damaged, therby making the prior $1500 spent garbage??
4) Are stroker kits worth the extra money when I have no plans on drag racing?

I dont think the stroker kit is worth it but...I'm a firm believer of "IF YOU'RE GONNA FIX IT, MAKE IT BETTER THAN IT WAS.

I'm really thinking about selling the bike "as-is" for someone who has a motor laying in their garage and getting another bike. Dont really want to take the time to part her out, when I just put in an entire winter and spring putting her together.

2000 ZX12
Marchesini Forged Wheels
Muzzy headers to custom Competition Werkes ZX10 Race Can
Mixed Billet Velocity Stacks
BMC Race Filters
APE adjustable cam sprockets
Pazzo short Levers
Yani Shiki Biller Rear Sets
Double Bubble Windscreen
GSG True Frame Sliders
PC3 USB
L.E.D. Undertail
Full body L.E.D. Strobelight kit (30 l.e.d's all together wired to controler for different patterns
Scotts Damper
All New Plastics, only on the bike about 2 months

I'm truly sick to my stomach now, seeing as how this will be the first good weekend of the year in Indy. Thinking about just throwing in the towel. Selling her as is... first $2k can have her..... Maybe... Just thinking... Trying not to be too depressed. This SUCKS.

Any thoughts on my estimate/diagnosis would be greatly appreciated. At least let me know if I'm getting thrown for a loop...

Could he possibly be wrong??? Is it worth taking to the "STEAL-ership" just to have them charge me to tell me the same thing???

AAGGHH DAMM ME!!!!
Sil
Indy12RR
I'll even take direct emails with thoughts...
bmrichmond@msn.com
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post #2 of 31 Old 04-22-2009, 09:59 PM
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First of all, $2k is way, way too little for what that bike is. DO NOT SELL IT.
Please post a video of the bike running.
A rod knock and a valve-train issue sound completely different. I would at least get a second opinion or ask to see the oil. For $1500 you can find a low mileage engine on ebay, the same place you could sell your "bad" one for $700 or more.
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post #3 of 31 Old 04-23-2009, 08:39 AM
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Welcome to the club. I spun a bearing @ 15,200 miles.

$1,500 sounds cheap to fix a spun bearing but you listed rod/piston. Spun bearing usually = bad crank. My dealer quoted $3,200 or so for parts and labor to fix mine. Then after getting into the motor they raised that price by $1,800. That was for new a crank, rods, bearings, everything & labor. I couldnt do it and ended up having to pay a $400 tear down fee.

If he can fix it for $1,500 do it

I looked for months for a "$1500 you can find a low mileage engine" and never found one. i did however find a pretty well built motor for $3,200. I've got $4K into the motor swap now.

In hindsight I may have been better off parting what I had and cutting my losses...I've seen too many 12's in the 4K range.

But i like to drag race and once this bike is sorted it should put down a damn good #.

A small local shop owner explained it to me like this...its probably not worth fixing if you plan on selling it any time soon. But if you plan on keeping it for 5 years or so do it.

Also, I think I'd give you $2,000 for it :)
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post #4 of 31 Old 04-23-2009, 09:06 AM
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Sorry to hear the bad news... Lemme guess: #3 cylinder??

I'M NO EXPERT ON THIS MATTER, BUT... If I were considering something to "make it better than stock" when going back together, I would concentrate on getting more/better oiling to those areas prone to this type of failure... There are shops that specialize in optimizing oil flow on these engine cases... You might also look @ other oil pumps...

This is a weak point shared by the ZX-11, also...

Just my $.02...

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
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post #5 of 31 Old 04-23-2009, 09:31 AM
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Don't sell it, really if the motor is done right, the bike will not disappoint you. I would suggest sending the motor to a reputable builder. There are a few good ones and worth the money. Check out the builds in the big bore area of the site.

"The Shinobi Experiment"

http://kawasakiworld.com/zx-12r/3201...0-07-pics.html

Have a read...hopefully this helps...

http://mckenzie68.wordpress.com/
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

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post #6 of 31 Old 04-23-2009, 03:51 PM
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you can more than likely just have the rod sized and it will be fine(way cheaper). if the bearing went bad(spun), it can give enough slack to let the piston hit the head. this may require a new piston, but if its just dinged up a bit you can reuse it, clean it up, get rid of the sharp edges. the piston pin may have to be cleaned off and you may need to hone the pin bore or simply sand (VERY lightly!) with 2000 grit paper to remove the metal transfer that can happen between the pin and pin bore of the piston. if the rod journal is bad send it to Marine Crankshaft. they can fix it pretty cheap, or for a bit more make it a stroker. (+4mm would be a nice street motor)
bearing shells will cost you about $25 for one rod.


IMO, if the piston is unuseable, and the crank is damaged, built a 4mm stroker with a 3mm over bore (1287 pistons on a 4mm crank =1380cc)

01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 on dot tires, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, 55 shot... turbo 8.32 @ 173
00 ZX-12R 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Worlds Fastest NA Kawasaki
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 249.5 1.5: 266.5 Worlds fastest ZX-12R CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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post #7 of 31 Old 04-23-2009, 03:57 PM
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ding ding ding KZ.
I'm headed down that road myself in June. You'll also needs some trans work if you're going 1380 (jumping from 170ish to 220ish hp).
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post #8 of 31 Old 04-23-2009, 06:17 PM
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man i feel bad for u. u making me sad. good luck i will keep a look out for engines on ebay & craigslist
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post #9 of 31 Old 04-24-2009, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZuminaZX View Post
ding ding ding KZ.
I'm headed down that road myself in June. You'll also needs some trans work if you're going 1380 (jumping from 170ish to 220ish hp).
basically the 1380 combo is the right way to upgrade the old Muzzy 1361 kit. i would like to build one, but i want to stay under the 1350cc limit for lsr with my bike. next yr might see a 2.6mm crank in my bike(1347) and possibly a 5mm(1417) in dads(slick n bar bike). imo, more than 4mm is pushing the limits for longevity, especially if its not done by the best of the best. if i do a 5mm in dads it will be strictly track use and torn down for inspection after 1 season.

01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 on dot tires, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, 55 shot... turbo 8.32 @ 173
00 ZX-12R 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Worlds Fastest NA Kawasaki
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 249.5 1.5: 266.5 Worlds fastest ZX-12R CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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post #10 of 31 Old 04-24-2009, 09:11 PM
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I had same thing happen to one of my bikes.. it was cheaper to get new motor then to have the old one rebuilt.. problem with rare bike is finding one..sorry to hear about it. Mine sounded like shims at first then got worst and worse.. I replaced the cam chain tensoner first then adjusted after that 300 bucks to find out it was berring. easy way to check is to pull plugs get plastic tube or something that is not going to dammage piston put bike in gear and push down on piston if it moves down. your fucked.. thats what mine did spun #3 berring from doing to many wheelies most likely.
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post #11 of 31 Old 04-24-2009, 10:52 PM
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I thought this whole #3 rod bearing thing that plagued the 11 was sorted out on the 12. Is there an after market fix for the 12 like there was for the 11?

Z1R-TC "When exciting and scary become one"
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post #12 of 31 Old 04-25-2009, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z1R-TC TIM View Post
I thought this whole #3 rod bearing thing that plagued the 11 was sorted out on the 12. Is there an after market fix for the 12 like there was for the 11?
The 12 has a weak #3, similar to the old 11... I'm not sure if the reason(s) are the same, but I think so... There's some smart guys on here who can tell ya!!

Yes there is a fix (again, I defer to greater experience here)...

The good news is that this is rather rare...

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
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post #13 of 31 Old 04-25-2009, 08:50 PM
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This goes all the way back to the 84 900 Ninja. You would think after 16yrs. to the first ZX12, and the aftermarket showing them the fix, that Kawasaki would have addressed it. Has this happened to any of the 14's yet?

Z1R-TC "When exciting and scary become one"
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post #14 of 31 Old 05-05-2009, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
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The stars have alligned... I'm hopefully (please wish me luck) going to pick up a dusty stock 2005 ZX12 with 3400 miles on the ticker for under $3k. If I'm fortunate enough to get her... I'm wondering if my go fast goodies will fit. I know there were some differences between the 2000 and 2005 models as far as the build and internals.. But I'm wondering about my aftermarket parts.

1) PC3 USB. I know the ecu's are different on the 05 model, will my 2000 model PC3 USB fit an 05?

2) Will a full Muzzy header from a 2000 fit the motor in the 05?

3) I know the radial mount brakes and rotors are different between the 2000 and the 2005.. Will my Marchesini wheels from my 2000 fit if I swap the rotors out for the 05 models? Thinking about axel spacers, front 17tooth sprocket, rear driven sprocket???

4) I know the front upper fairing is different on the 05 with the ram air scoop and all, but behind that, will I be able to mount my 2000 model fairings to the front of an 05? Will my tail, undertail, and tank plastics fit if I switched them from my 2000 to the 2005. What about the ram air covers, the 05 has larger covers that go all the way up to the headlights and wrap around the dash?

5) Will my Vincent Hill velocity stacks from the 2000 fit the throttle bodies of the 2005

I'm pretty sure most everything else will fit (BMC's, rearsets, scotts damper, SS brakelines, pazzo levers, cam sprockets, GSG Moto Frame Sliders, etc) I would much rather start over with the 05 with 3k miles vs rebuilding the motor on my 2000 with 27k miles on it. Even if the plastics dont fit.. She's all black, so I think I can make it work for now.. Sell the fairings I have and make some money back...

Man I hope he sells her to me... I need some good luck after this setback

Sil
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post #15 of 31 Old 05-05-2009, 12:53 PM
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1) PC3 USB. I know the ecu's are different on the 05 model, will my 2000 model PC3 USB fit an 05?

no

2) Will a full Muzzy header from a 2000 fit the motor in the 05?

yes

3) I know the radial mount brakes and rotors are different between the 2000 and the 2005.. Will my Marchesini wheels from my 2000 fit if I swap the rotors out for the 05 models? Thinking about axel spacers, front 17tooth sprocket, rear driven sprocket???

pretty sure. all the oem rims are the same, so i would assume the aftermaket ones are too. just double check all teh spacers first

4) I know the front upper fairing is different on the 05 with the ram air scoop and all, but behind that, will I be able to mount my 2000 model fairings to the front of an 05? Will my tail, undertail, and tank plastics fit if I switched them from my 2000 to the 2005. What about the ram air covers, the 05 has larger covers that go all the way up to the headlights and wrap around the dash?

the front fairings need to stay with the same kind (1st gen vs 2nd gen) the tank covers, tail, undertail are all the same

5) Will my Vincent Hill velocity stacks from the 2000 fit the throttle bodies of the 2005

no the 04/05 have different throttle bodies than the 00-03

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