I am working on a map for my 2003 and have one problem remaining that I'm having difficulty with There is a major surge in power right at 2500 rpm at about 3 to 4% throttle. I'm using the Hindle 4-2-1 exhaust map after having tweaked it to remove the on/off throttle problem and the idle hunt problem. I have tried numerous increase and decreases in the amount of fuel in the 2000 to 3000 rpm range at 2% and 5% throttle and can't seem to get rid of that dramatic surge. It's very annoying when trying to turn around a corner from a stop. The bike tends to shoot out from under you about halfway through the turn. Here are the latest two maps I've tried. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Map 1

0 2 5 10 20 40 60 80 100
500 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1000 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1500 5 14 10 15 -1 0 0 0 0
2000 5 3 -12 -3 -13 -31 -39 -40 -35
2500 5 -12 -14 -11 -11 -22 -27 -25 -22
3000 5 -10 -4 5 11 21 20 27 21
3500 10 -13 -6 7 11 24 9 14 17
4000 10 -22 -15 -3 -2 7 5 -2 7
4500 10 -24 -16 -3 -1 8 3 -1 4
5000 10 0 -12 5 1 6 4 5 7
5500 30 0 -6 10 -1 -1 -1 -3 -2
6000 40 0 -4 12 1 -3 1 -2 -2
6500 20 0 -4 13 4 -4 -1 -3 -2
7000 10 0 0 13 8 -6 3 -1 -2
7500 10 0 0 10 9 -6 4 1 2
8000 10 0 0 10 15 14 11 4 2
8500 10 0 0 7 8 9 2 6 7
9000 10 0 0 2 7 5 2 7 9
9500 10 0 0 1 5 5 0 6 8
10000 10 0 0 0 6 3 -5 3 6
10500 0 0 0 0 1 0 -7 0 2
11000 0 0 0 0 0 3 -5 2 3
11500 0 0 0 0 0 3 -5 2 3
12000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0


Map 2

0 2 5 10 20 40 60 80 100
500 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1000 15 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1500 15 -9 -5 10 -1 0 0 0 0
2000 10 -12 -12 -3 -13 -31 -39 -40 -35
2500 5 -12 -14 -11 -11 -22 -27 -25 -22
3000 5 -10 -4 5 11 21 20 27 21
3500 10 -13 -6 7 11 24 9 14 17
4000 10 -22 -15 -3 -2 7 5 -2 7
4500 10 -24 -16 -3 -1 8 3 -1 4
5000 10 0 -12 5 1 6 4 5 7
5500 30 0 -6 10 -1 -1 -1 -3 -2
6000 40 0 -4 12 1 -3 1 -2 -2
6500 20 0 -4 13 4 -4 -1 -3 -2
7000 10 0 0 13 8 -6 3 -1 -2
7500 10 0 0 10 9 -6 4 1 2
8000 10 0 0 10 15 14 11 4 2
8500 10 0 0 7 8 9 2 6 7
9000 10 0 0 2 7 5 2 7 9
9500 10 0 0 1 5 5 0 6 8
10000 10 0 0 0 6 3 -5 3 6
10500 0 0 0 0 1 0 -7 0 2
11000 0 0 0 0 0 3 -5 2 3
11500 0 0 0 0 0 3 -5 2 3
12000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Possibly the pilot jet mod will cure a lot of you low down issues. Both my 2000 ZX12R's had the same problems with hunting and a big surge at 2700 rpms (Mine ) Maybe someone knows where to point you to the write up, I beleive it worked for quite a few of the members

Possibly the pilot jet mod will cure a lot of your low down issues. Both my 2000 ZX12R's had the same problems with hunting and a big surge at 2700 rpms (Mine ) Maybe someone knows where to point you to the write up, I believe it worked for quite a few of the members. Consisted of inserting a pilot jet into a pipe associated with one of the sensors, thus reducing iy's sensitivity, therefore reducing the hunting.
Good luck
Regards Y'all
Ted Edwards

I should have mentioned, I already have done the pilot jet mod. Did that for the hunt and seek idle problem before I installed a PCIII. Didn't help much unfortunately.

DW, I'm not trying to sound like an ass here, but are you sure you did the pilotjet mod correctly? Mine made a huge difference. I did have to move the jet around a couple times and it was perfect.

Are you running the stepped(Race) hindle or the standard hindle? If you're running the stepped, you may want to ping Vincent Hill---he's the guru on that particular exhaust.

My mods that made my '03 (w/regular hindle) were pretty much straight from the 'common mods link' on this site.

PC3 w/hindle map from dynojet
+4 degrees w/ muzzys ignition advancer
kleen-air removal
TPS adjustment(don't remember what it was set at, but its on a link here---link is no good, I'll get with admin to get it repaired.)

It was absolutely butter smooth with these modifications.

Hi L2M

Don't worry about coming off as an ass. I didn't think that at all, and I appreciate any feedback I can get.

I'm pretty sure I did the pilot jet mod as it's supposed to be done. Used a Mikuni 12.5 pilot jet, cut a 5" piece of hose and placed the jet about an inch in from one end. I attached the other end of the 5" hose to the sensor and used a plastic "splice" type connector to connect the end of the 5" hose with the jet closest to it to the hose I had taken off the sensor. So basically I have the jet about 4" away from the sensor. Maybe I misread something but I think that's the way it's supposed to be installed.

I also have the Kleenair mod, including the connection to the crankcase to provide a negative pressure in the case. I tried the TPS adjustment as well. None of these mods made an appreciable difference in the "hunting idle" problem. Guess my bike is just stubborn.

I do not have the stepped Hindle. Wish I did. What I have is what came on the bike when I bought it about three months ago. The previous owner told me it was a full Hindle. It is definitely a Hindle can, though I cannot tell by looking if the entire system is Hindle or not. It is a 4-2-1 pipe. I do not know what the stock pipe looks like so I cannot guarantee it is a full exhaust.

Its a full exhaust, the stocker(if I recall correctly) is 4 to 1. If the header tubes are stepped(progressively get larger in diameter) its the Race system. If there are no visible welds, and it looks like regular bent tubing, its the standard. You can tell pretty quickly by looking at them. The regular hindle is far from a power house when it comes to making hp---nothing like the stepped anyway. Regardless, i didn't know what 'stepped' was when I bought mine anyway, not that my rookie ass needed any extra ponies. LOL
Also, if its a slip-on, the stock header goes all the way to the muffler, so you will have a guard with two screws(protects you from burning your boot I guess) right in front of the hindle can.

As for the jetmod, my mukiini jet was about one inch from the actual sensor. I wish I still had all my old pics, hopefully the new admin will be able to recover the old pics.

Try moving the pilotjet a little closer to the sensor. The air fluttering inside the vacuum tube is what throws the sensor off, which can cause extra stumble. The closer the jet is, the smoother the air is, just make sure you don't put it any closer than one inch.

Hope this helps.
L2M

Good info. Then it is a full hindle (non-stepped) exhaust.

I will try moving the pilot jet to within 1" of the sensor and see if that helps. That would be wonderful if it did. I was thinking about trying some other pilot jets, as I have a few laying around from other bikes, but I doubt any of them are as small as the 12.5. I imagine smaller would be the way to go if the 12.5 doesn't work for me. Just out of curiousity, what would happen if the vacuum port was blocked off or if the sensor was disconnected? Has anyone tried this before?

In theory it would run like crap. I never tried it though. I'd bet its been tried before though....I've gotta assume that it wouldn't work, or it would be called the non-pilot-jet block-off mod :)

Tired moving the pilot jet to within an inch of the sensor and the bike still has a fluctuating idle and still has the surge at 2500 rpm. Actually might be a little worse having moved the idle jet. I'm stumped. Both the pilot jet mod and the TPS adjustment made on appreciable difference in the hunting idle and the 2500 rpm surge.:(

Ok, I've done a lot of maps and here's my 2 cents...

Your first number in that RPM range is 5 so you are adding fuel over
the baseline with little or no throttle... which makes the engine load up
with too much fuel... then you add throttle (air) to an already rich
condition, and at the same time you lean it out.... so it now has a stong
mixture and your surge occurrs....

No doubt in my mind what is happening....

So let me import the table to Word, and I'll put the new settings in blue text... back in a few...

PS... I would run an EGT to get the mixtures just right, for max hp, but I'll put in the
numbers that will remove the surge...

Jere

Here's my suggested map and WHY. (dammit the BLUE did not come over
from Word....) so you'll have to compare them and make changes.

In your old map (which I think is terrible) you go from +5 at 0 throttle open
to +3 and then all of a sudden it goes -12... that's a huge change too
close to another setting... your maps need to flow as your rpm change
along with throttle openings... no map setting should be more than 6 or 7
settings apart... because you either have way too much fuel or you are
starving the engine... so to go from 5 to -12 is a 17 unit change!!!
So try this map... is has gradual mixture changes... and if you still have
a small surge, it's too rich... change the first column all the way down
to 2... You have +5 in the lower and 0 in the mid range.... Many
people do that so when you close the throttle at high rpm, it puts the engine
in a real rich mixture which does two things... 1 it cools the valves, and 2
it makes the engine too rich so as you open the throttle it's a bit slow to
respond and the power comes on more gradual. If you want to try
something fun, put the first column at 0 all the way down...

Take the bike up to redline in second gear, then close the throttle all the
way and then wack it again from say 5000 rpm... over and over to feel
the response in power. Now set the first column all at -10.. and do the
same thing... be careful as the power will come on so quick the bike will tend
to wheelie...most people don't want a bike that come on so sharply
off 0 throttle... but it's fun....:p

NEW map... Notice none of the numbers go from a huge + figure to a
huge -figure. Much more gentle

Map 1

0 2 5 10 20 40 60 80 100
500 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1000 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1500 5 5 8 7 5 0 0 0 0
2000 5 3 0 -3 -3 -5 -3 -1 0
2500 5 3 0 -3-0 -0 2 2 3
3000 5 2 0 3 3 5 3 3 3
3500 6 5 4 7 7 8 9 7 8
4000 10 5 0 -3 -2 0 5 3 7
4500 10 5 0 -3 -1 8 3 -1 4
5000 10 0 5 5 1 6 4 5 7
5500 10 0 5 10 -1 -1 -1 -3 -2
6000 10 0 2 12 1 -3 1 -2 -2
6500 10 0 0 13 4 -4 -1 -3 -2
7000 10 0 0 13 8 -6 3 -1 -2
7500 10 0 0 10 9 -6 4 1 2
8000 10 0 0 10 15 14 11 4 2
8500 10 0 0 7 8 9 2 6 7
9000 10 0 0 2 7 5 2 7 9
9500 10 0 0 1 5 5 0 6 8
10000 10 0 0 0 6 3 -5 3 6
10500 0 0 0 0 1 0 -7 0 2
11000 0 0 0 0 0 3 -5 2 3
11500 0 0 0 0 0 3 -5 2 3
12000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Thanks Jere, can't wait to try this map. Will get it plugged in today and see how she responds. The map with those huge variations was actually the dynojet map for the Hindle 4-2-1. Only changes I had made to that was to add fuel in the 0% throttle column, but otherwise was pretty much what dynojet had posted. The other map was one I had played with, trying to smooth things out a bit, but never really got it figured out. I will plug your map in and give it a shot and let you know what changes it makes. I really appreciate the help.

Thanks
Dave

getting rid of the surge is some thing i did not try yet on the ecu. i know what happens when u unplug the tpswhile it runs. i ran mine with it unplugged and even in the manual it runs off the A-N fixed rpm vs tps map in the ecu. it ran and reved great. i did not ride it though but according to the manual it will drive. when my map sensor went out i realized the bike does not really use it really till you grab a lot of throttle. it idles and drives off the density map till it sences you loading the engine then it mixes both or goes to the A-N map.