PCV with auto tune?? - Kawasaki Forum :: KawasakiWorld.com
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post #1 of 47 Old 09-14-2013, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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PCV with auto tune??

Hi , has anyone had a data logger on a PCV with auto tune ? if so does it work on the fly ( meaning tuning the bike in every conditions) ?
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post #2 of 47 Old 09-15-2013, 04:30 AM
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I believe engineerrol did it with great results. Not sure about ho well the autotune worked. He has a great thread on here you may want to check out just search for theads started by him. The answers you are looking for are probably there.
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post #3 of 47 Old 09-15-2013, 09:08 AM
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The actual autotune module doesn't support data logging. You'd need to buy the wideband2 module for that. The wideband2 box does function as an autotune box...I know for sure because I use a wideband2 box.

I never hooked up a data logger, but it works really well. The only issue I had was with some nasty exhaust reversion at certain spots wanting to make the bike run way rich. Once you identify those spots, you can turn them off in the autotune and never worry about it.

I get arm ripping power in first through fifth gears and 43mpg when cruising in sixth and I never have to get it tuned again.
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post #4 of 47 Old 09-15-2013, 05:02 PM
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the lcd screen is what allows datalogging. either the lcd-100 for pc3usb or lcd-200 for pcv. all you need is a 1gig sd card. nothing bigger, no sdhc, specifically a 1 gig sd. once that is all hooked up, you can log anything going through the power commander and whatever devices it is hooked up to. the autotune will send the same afr info as the wideband2. you just select the device and channel to log in the log setup sub-menu on the lcd screen.

the only difference between the wideband2 and autotune, is that the autotune needs a power commander to be of any use. that is the only thing it will hook up to, and has no other outputs. the wideband2 will hook up to a pcv and/or lcd using the exact same com ports and connectors, it just has the option of being a standalone device due to extra inputs and outputs. you could even take the wideband2 and lcd-200 off your bike and throw it in your car and log that as well.

if you wanted to, you can buy the autotune, lcd, and pcv. and then log everything and do all of your tuning manually.

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post #5 of 47 Old 09-15-2013, 05:25 PM
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My mistake.
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post #6 of 47 Old 09-15-2013, 05:35 PM
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if you ever try the lcd, don't get too distracted. its really neat staring down at the afrs and watching them work their way to where you have your tune set in real time. just not the best idea in traffic.

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post #7 of 47 Old 09-16-2013, 01:11 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys for all your help and wisdom , I was originally thinking of bunging two 02 sensors in (one for a logger and the other for the auto tune) but in all its not worth it from what Almost-les said ..

Has anyone had ( as an example) 60 mph roll on to 170 mph and if so did the auto tune keep the afr's steady throw all the gears ?
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post #8 of 47 Old 09-16-2013, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by maxumis View Post
Thanks guys for all your help and wisdom , I was originally thinking of bunging two 02 sensors in (one for a logger and the other for the auto tune) but in all its not worth it from what Almost-les said ..

Has anyone had ( as an example) 60 mph roll on to 170 mph and if so did the auto tune keep the afr's steady throw all the gears ?
It's not as instant as the name implies. If you want the best bang for your buck you need to do long 6th gear pulls. The system needs a bit of time to generate autotune trims. If you do a first gear rip and then look at the trim table, it will be filled with gaps. The best way is to do a few long pulls, then plug in your laptop and view the trim table. If there are any gaps, fill them in with the values from nearby cells. The idea is to try to smooth everything out. Then, accept trims from the pull down menu, save the new map, and send it to the bike. You will notice each time you go through the process the trim values become smaller as it gets closer to the desired afr. Do that a couple times and you will be dead on in no time at all.

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"Do a wheelie!" -moron
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post #9 of 47 Old 09-17-2013, 12:44 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by almost_les View Post
It's not as instant as the name implies. If you want the best bang for your buck you need to do long 6th gear pulls. The system needs a bit of time to generate autotune trims. If you do a first gear rip and then look at the trim table, it will be filled with gaps. The best way is to do a few long pulls, then plug in your laptop and view the trim table. If there are any gaps, fill them in with the values from nearby cells. The idea is to try to smooth everything out. Then, accept trims from the pull down menu, save the new map, and send it to the bike. You will notice each time you go through the process the trim values become smaller as it gets closer to the desired afr. Do that a couple times and you will be dead on in no time at all.
Thanks Almost-les for your help mate !! its very much appreciated .
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post #10 of 47 Old 09-17-2013, 07:06 AM
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Hey les, did you run in to reversion cells too? Is yours mapped with one table across all gears or did you set up mapping per gear?
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post #11 of 47 Old 09-17-2013, 11:52 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by engineerrol View Post
Hey les, did you run in to reversion cells too? Is yours mapped with one table across all gears or did you set up mapping per gear?
Can that be done as well ? meaning mapping per gear ?? That would be the ultimate setup for sure if possible ??..

Last edited by maxumis; 09-17-2013 at 11:58 PM.
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post #12 of 47 Old 09-18-2013, 04:55 AM
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Mine is setup to map per gear. I've tapped in to the speed sensor signal coming from the ECU and set it to one the speed input on the PCV. Then you calibrate the speed and calibrate the ratio for each gear (sounds bad but it's easy to do with a rear stand.)

When it's all done, you get 6 AFR maps, 6 trim tables, and 6 fuel maps. I love it...I have maximum power in gears 1-5 and get 43 mpg on the highway in 6th.

I also used the PCV to tap in to the engine temperature. You can use that to allow custom trims based on engine temperature but I just use it to set a minimum engine temp before Autotune kicks on.
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post #13 of 47 Old 09-18-2013, 06:14 AM
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Thanks guys for all your help and wisdom , I was originally thinking of bunging two 02 sensors in (one for a logger and the other for the auto tune) but in all its not worth it from what Almost-les said
Someone will correct me on this. I have zero experience with the pc system. I'll more throw the wisdom you are thinking of: as the same idea I'm thinking of. Ready?

The 02 is built to spec out under a volt. That means there is math that has to follow this voltage. When the 02 senses rich, it reverses a voltage down in 10ths of volts. So for argument sake, say 0.1v senses rich an 0.9v senses lean. It might be reversed is the theory, but you get the idea the 02 has a set resistance to send these signals under a volt.

The map you made, for argument sake, showed peak HP you can't get any higher, sans porting/cams/bore/etc., to gain more. That is your set map you race with. Enter the 02.

The 02 is going to take your [racing] cell values and run them down to 14.6 AFR, or darnear 'stoic', i.e., 14.7 as in no emissions, ideally speaking. This 'learn' process will take I don't know how many keystrokes are saved until you have this ideal 'low vacuum' cruising valve, btw, gives you the best economy at light throttle loads.

When you are in a 'heavy vacuum' load, the fuel system works 2 ways. The speed rate of the 02's input is for low rpm. The higher rpm input takes time for the 02 to send in that kind of speed input? So no, the bike is back to your race map under heavy load conditions, the 02 shuts down.

Said another way, you are running in 'closed loop' is when the 02 is under light loads. Then, as if there was no 02 to change the fuel back to 14.6 ideal AFR, it drops out so you have that power to pass cars anchit.

When passing vehicles, the heavy load becomes 'open loop' and there is where your AFR will show that time lag, you having the accel mode in play. You can pump that value into the 11 AFR's and light the back tire off.

Quote:
Has anyone had (as an example) 60 mph roll on to 170 mph and if so did the auto tune keep the afr's steady throw all the gears ?
Correct me if I am wrong again, but you need to run 2 AFR's if you want to watch each cylinder. Say you have every box needed from pit limiter to shifter kit, to 02 box. Well, you need another remote 02 box. You'll need 4 bungs welded at the ideal header location for each cylinder. You are going to plug in the 2nd 02 into cylinder #1 and watch that map. You are going to close off that bung. Swap the 02 into cylinder #2 and so on.

Meanwhile, you are watching the average at the main 02 that is always in play. Make sense?

Known to be at tech thread abuser. I like lying to animals too.
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post #14 of 47 Old 09-18-2013, 10:31 AM
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Someone will correct me on this. I have zero experience with the pc system. I'll more throw the wisdom you are thinking of: as the same idea I'm thinking of. Ready?

The 02 is built to spec out under a volt. That means there is math that has to follow this voltage. When the 02 senses rich, it reverses a voltage down in 10ths of volts. So for argument sake, say 0.1v senses rich an 0.9v senses lean. It might be reversed is the theory, but you get the idea the 02 has a set resistance to send these signals under a volt.

The map you made, for argument sake, showed peak HP you can't get any higher, sans porting/cams/bore/etc., to gain more. That is your set map you race with. Enter the 02.

The 02 is going to take your [racing] cell values and run them down to 14.6 AFR, or darnear 'stoic', i.e., 14.7 as in no emissions, ideally speaking. This 'learn' process will take I don't know how many keystrokes are saved until you have this ideal 'low vacuum' cruising valve, btw, gives you the best economy at light throttle loads.

When you are in a 'heavy vacuum' load, the fuel system works 2 ways. The speed rate of the 02's input is for low rpm. The higher rpm input takes time for the 02 to send in that kind of speed input? So no, the bike is back to your race map under heavy load conditions, the 02 shuts down.

Said another way, you are running in 'closed loop' is when the 02 is under light loads. Then, as if there was no 02 to change the fuel back to 14.6 ideal AFR, it drops out so you have that power to pass cars anchit.

When passing vehicles, the heavy load becomes 'open loop' and there is where your AFR will show that time lag, you having the accel mode in play. You can pump that value into the 11 AFR's and light the back tire off.



Correct me if I am wrong again, but you need to run 2 AFR's if you want to watch each cylinder. Say you have every box needed from pit limiter to shifter kit, to 02 box. Well, you need another remote 02 box. You'll need 4 bungs welded at the ideal header location for each cylinder. You are going to plug in the 2nd 02 into cylinder #1 and watch that map. You are going to close off that bung. Swap the 02 into cylinder #2 and so on.

Meanwhile, you are watching the average at the main 02 that is always in play. Make sense?
the power commander system is always closed loop. except for the delay you have set during warmup. if you have a delay set up at all. there is no running lean, getting on the gas, and having it drop out of closed loop. under heavy load, the o2 does not shut down. it uses a wideband, not a narrow band o2 sensor. you can set it to cruise at 11:1 afr and accelerate at 15:1. you tell it what afr values you want and where you want them. you also tell it which rpms and throttle positions to ignore.

as for running 4 bungs on the bike, absolute overkill. true, that method would yield the most accurate tune, but good lord, who is that picky when it comes to a street bike? with an inline 4 cylinder motor, if you are having big differences between individual cylinders, something is wrong. just get your injectors ultrasonically cleaned once a year and you are good to go.

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"Do a wheelie!" -moron
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post #15 of 47 Old 09-18-2013, 10:40 AM
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Hey les, did you run in to reversion cells too? Is yours mapped with one table across all gears or did you set up mapping per gear?
didn't have any reversion issues. but i only ride my bike on the streets on the way to the track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by engineerrol View Post
Mine is setup to map per gear. I've tapped in to the speed sensor signal coming from the ECU and set it to one the speed input on the PCV. Then you calibrate the speed and calibrate the ratio for each gear (sounds bad but it's easy to do with a rear stand.)

When it's all done, you get 6 AFR maps, 6 trim tables, and 6 fuel maps. I love it...I have maximum power in gears 1-5 and get 43 mpg on the highway in 6th.

I also used the PCV to tap in to the engine temperature. You can use that to allow custom trims based on engine temperature but I just use it to set a minimum engine temp before Autotune kicks on.
nice setup! I'm planning on using the per-gear map function when i start spraying to offset the nitrous pressure drop as i go down the track.

2002 ZX-12R Blue w/ Ghost Flames (thats 5 extra hp!)
"Do a wheelie!" -moron
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