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PCV with auto tune??

10K views 46 replies 6 participants last post by  maxumis 
#1 ·
Hi , has anyone had a data logger on a PCV with auto tune ? if so does it work on the fly ( meaning tuning the bike in every conditions) ?
 
#3 ·
The actual autotune module doesn't support data logging. You'd need to buy the wideband2 module for that. The wideband2 box does function as an autotune box...I know for sure because I use a wideband2 box.

I never hooked up a data logger, but it works really well. The only issue I had was with some nasty exhaust reversion at certain spots wanting to make the bike run way rich. Once you identify those spots, you can turn them off in the autotune and never worry about it.

I get arm ripping power in first through fifth gears and 43mpg when cruising in sixth and I never have to get it tuned again.
 
#4 ·


the lcd screen is what allows datalogging. either the lcd-100 for pc3usb or lcd-200 for pcv. all you need is a 1gig sd card. nothing bigger, no sdhc, specifically a 1 gig sd. once that is all hooked up, you can log anything going through the power commander and whatever devices it is hooked up to. the autotune will send the same afr info as the wideband2. you just select the device and channel to log in the log setup sub-menu on the lcd screen.

the only difference between the wideband2 and autotune, is that the autotune needs a power commander to be of any use. that is the only thing it will hook up to, and has no other outputs. the wideband2 will hook up to a pcv and/or lcd using the exact same com ports and connectors, it just has the option of being a standalone device due to extra inputs and outputs. you could even take the wideband2 and lcd-200 off your bike and throw it in your car and log that as well.

if you wanted to, you can buy the autotune, lcd, and pcv. and then log everything and do all of your tuning manually.
 
#6 ·
if you ever try the lcd, don't get too distracted. its really neat staring down at the afrs and watching them work their way to where you have your tune set in real time. just not the best idea in traffic.
 
#7 ·
Thanks guys for all your help and wisdom , I was originally thinking of bunging two 02 sensors in (one for a logger and the other for the auto tune) but in all its not worth it from what Almost-les said ..

Has anyone had ( as an example) 60 mph roll on to 170 mph and if so did the auto tune keep the afr's steady throw all the gears ?
 
#8 ·
It's not as instant as the name implies. If you want the best bang for your buck you need to do long 6th gear pulls. The system needs a bit of time to generate autotune trims. If you do a first gear rip and then look at the trim table, it will be filled with gaps. The best way is to do a few long pulls, then plug in your laptop and view the trim table. If there are any gaps, fill them in with the values from nearby cells. The idea is to try to smooth everything out. Then, accept trims from the pull down menu, save the new map, and send it to the bike. You will notice each time you go through the process the trim values become smaller as it gets closer to the desired afr. Do that a couple times and you will be dead on in no time at all.
 
#12 ·
Mine is setup to map per gear. I've tapped in to the speed sensor signal coming from the ECU and set it to one the speed input on the PCV. Then you calibrate the speed and calibrate the ratio for each gear (sounds bad but it's easy to do with a rear stand.)

When it's all done, you get 6 AFR maps, 6 trim tables, and 6 fuel maps. I love it...I have maximum power in gears 1-5 and get 43 mpg on the highway in 6th.

I also used the PCV to tap in to the engine temperature. You can use that to allow custom trims based on engine temperature but I just use it to set a minimum engine temp before Autotune kicks on.
 
#30 ·
Mantis, I'm trying to figure this stuff out. I'm still observing and taking guessing at it. For me to ask some unanswerable questions, I leave those to me. When guys like you and the list above are asked the penultimate question, I have to then question your abstract you get that Q wrong.

When I ask that specific Q I never get an answer. Kind of makes you wonder how much rocket science you think this is? I'm now looking at maxumis and wondering how blind into that abstract he needs to ask, and if it goes against the penultimate question I muddled your head wit :crackup:
 
#20 ·
didn't knkow this was an arguement, but since this is the internet, i guess somebody will always be able to find one whether or not one is going on.

moving on,

if you are full throttle and at 0.86 lambda, you are going to fly past that bus. just because you can use lambda to measure something doesn't mean you are locked into one possibility. Lambda value of 1 is stoich, less than 1 is rich, greater than 1 is lean.

and then there is a gaping flaw in your logic: 14.6 afr has nothing to do with air pressure. nothing to do with vacuum. I can lift at high rpm and have a 12:1 afr, 13:1 afr, or 17: afr, it all depends on how much air is entering the engine in relation to the amount of fuel I have set to be injected.

afr is air-to-fuel ratio. at a stoichiometric blend, there will be about 14.6 units of air (by mass) per 1 unit of fuel (also by mass). doesn't matter the air pressure. an engine running at sea level at 14.6 afr will produce the same amount of power per unit of fuel burned if you move it to pikes peak where you have about 60% of the oxygen density. it will produce less power due to less oxygen available, therefore less fuel being burned, but you would still have a stoich mix of 14.6:1 afr. if you added fuel and lowered the afr to a lesser number to match the atmospheric pressure value, you would be running quite rich.

hopefully that helps.
 
#27 ·
The thing with 02 and PAIR, it's emissions related. Almost needs to understand his bike. So I suggest he holds the PAIR actuator, feel it tick off at low rpm. But when there is a heavy load, that unit stops ticking. To me, that says I shut down and run in open loop, or in heavy load. I cannot keep up with [rpm] demand so I shut down or I'll break physically trying to catch up.

Watt I'm saying is... The ECU takes action under heavy vacuum. It changes map scheduling into the heavy loads. As if pulling a trailer up hill with the foot on the floor. If we saw the fuel ratio scale, 12 AFR is best torque 13 AFR is the better rich torque.

So for me to accept that a pulled trailer is going to run at stoic when it needs a rich torque, who is that that makes this kind of map in FI? The math is all about numbers and positions = How it fuels itself in all rpm parameters.

When the TPS fails, the bike goes into 'method.' This is known as the D-J or 'digital-jetronics that takes over the light loads. When the IAP sensor fails, this part of the fueling runs in a-N or takes over the heavy loads needed. This is known as the alpha-Numeric or the limp that runs in stoic.

So the calc runs around using 760mmHg as a number. This still reps out as the 1 atmosphere calc number. Whereas the 02 sends in analog (many signals) or it fails to send any signal, then the ECU 'takes safety measures to save the engine from damage' is to preset the fueling into a stoic/lambda setting in digital (using the one constant number only).

Sensors = Analog = Many numbers that smooth the system in a linear way.
Backup = Digital = Only one number is used to calc if many numbers are not showing input. This is now a jerky/twitchy feeling in limp mode. The ignition is what you are feeling as it safely modes from spark damage, feels twitchy, no longer in a linear/smooth throttle response. This is open loop and how it addresses sensors in a failed and running mode. When the 02 fails in FI, this same method is used. The abstract may say different, but it means the same.

Suz uses 'fail-safe' as a way of saying the bike is now coded in limp.
Kawi says 'backup' saying the same abstract as how FI modes into itself to keep running without sensors. That why you have a CEL in cars for 'check engine light' and a flashing FI at the dash on the Kawi bike.

I'm in the process of running an 02 sensor on a used 14R header... I'll have 4 header tubes being bunged for fuel tuning. I might run 2 AFR meters so I can see the pre and post [past the cat].
 
#29 ·
I fully understand how fuel injection and digital injection work, but I think you (Hubz) are muddiying the waters.

The process really isn't rocket science, and I don't think anyone is disputing that the motor will momentarily lean out on lift and perhaps if experiencing a sensor failure and in a "limp" mode the overall fuel curve will be richer resulting in a slightly less lean out on lift.

Seems to me we have page of argument where there is no argument, I am positive you (Hubz) know your stuff inside and out, but your posts are absolutely cluttering my mind
 
#33 ·
That was your very first post, max. Your boys ran off on each other. I took off on someone's abstract. I looked up the data logging on the powercommander site. I don't know where or when you came up with the gears?

I told you I'm on a learning curve because some are not in step with the basics. I'm way past that if you get my drift.
 
#36 ·
It's an old fashioned dick measuring contest!

Step right up boys! Put 'em on the table and let's see who's packin'!

Except you're both sportin' 6 inchers it's just ones trying say theirs is 6" and the other is claiming 152.4mm. Get over it guys, you're both awesome but no one else really gives a shit.
 
#38 ·
Guys,guys, hold on. I'm establishing an abstract. I am clarifying a move. Yes, I understand the parts are missing. That's not my point. My point was: Low is the 02/high is open loop.

If one sees the bold lettering it said basically, "I am under heavy vacuum. I am an old mechanical gate and flap under low loads, but the vacuum is so strong, I close and hold at that vacuum unit lift."

That means the 02 does not run a constant stoic. That one load event changed as in a different fueling to rich, not remains stoic.

The has nothing to do with dicks floating in the poo: who's shrunk more? This is the laughing of the info on the net I find. The basics all in a knot. YOu removed a racing trick. That PAIR is NASCAR as if nothing has changed at that gate, or the solenoid I have on video that shuts off I heavy load the throttle. Different parts, same exact theory. {Pointed finger icon laughing at the PAIR shutter offers)
 
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