PCV with auto tune?? - Page 3 - Kawasaki Forum :: KawasakiWorld.com
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post #31 of 47 Old 09-21-2013, 05:32 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hubz14 View Post
Mantis, I'm trying to figure this stuff out. I'm still observing and taking guessing at it. For me to ask some unanswerable questions, I leave those to me. When guys like you and the list above are asked the penultimate question, I have to then question your abstract you get that Q wrong.

When I ask that specific Q I never get an answer. Kind of makes you wonder how much rocket science you think this is? I'm now looking at maxumis and wondering how blind into that abstract he needs to ask, and if it goes against the penultimate question I muddled your head wit
My question (in the first place) was can you tune the bike through all gears , so the bike keeps the same AFR's through all gears instead of having to run rich down low the have the right AFR's up high using WOT or have the right AFR"s down low and leanout in the higher gear using WOT and all the revs the bike has to offer .Seems everyone else new what I was talking about other than you Hubz.
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post #32 of 47 Old 09-21-2013, 05:50 PM
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allow me to clarify, my bike is a 2002 zx12r. no factory o2 sensor. Does not have the option nor the ability for the ecu trying to run stoich based off of exhaust readings. Never did. No pair valve either. No emissions control.

The pair valve it used to have never ticked either. It was vacuum actuated. No solenoid, just a simple diaphragm actuator.

With the tune in it, and the desired afr table I have loaded, it never runs stoich. Cruises at about 0.92 labmda, or about 13.5:1 afr. When it is full throttle, it goes to about .87 labda, or about 12.8:1 afr. It does not run at stoich under heavy load. It used to indicate a stoichiometric 1.0 lambda when cruising with the catalytic converter with the pair valve installed, but that was due to air entering the exhaust stream through the pair valve and reacting with unburnt hydrocarbons in the catalytic converter. That is once the cat was up to temperature. In reality the mixture entering the engine was slightly rich. The emission controls, specifically the pair valve, altered the exhaust stream, skewing the readings. Measuring afr's with emission controls is not accurate in terms of balancing the air/ fuel blend entering the engine. I could be running on the rich side, but those systems would compensate and make it seem like a stoich blend is entering the engine, due to the emission control altered exhaust. Post-emissions afr means absolutely nothing for my application. If I have a messed up tune, but the ecu and emission controls make it indicate stoich, well, I would still have a messed up tune. I am more concerned with performance at the track than emissions on the street, so all of that has been pulled off to avoid altering the afr readings. I need to know the balance of the fuel mixture on the intake side. The ecu still sends out the appropriate signals to have a stoich-ish exhaust stream as if the emission controls are functioning, however, those signals are intercepted and modified to allow a more performance oriented ride.


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Originally Posted by maxumis View Post
My question (in the first place) was can you tune the bike through all gears , so the bike keeps the same AFR's through all gears instead of having to run rich down low the have the right AFR's up high using WOT or have the right AFR"s down low and leanout in the higher gear using WOT and all the revs the bike has to offer .Seems everyone else new what I was talking about other than you Hubz.

2002 ZX-12R Blue w/ Ghost Flames (thats 5 extra hp!)
"Do a wheelie!" -moron
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post #33 of 47 Old 09-21-2013, 06:05 PM
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Hi , has anyone had a data logger on a PCV with auto tune ? if so does it work on the fly ( meaning tuning the bike in every conditions) ?
That was your very first post, max. Your boys ran off on each other. I took off on someone's abstract. I looked up the data logging on the powercommander site. I don't know where or when you came up with the gears?

I told you I'm on a learning curve because some are not in step with the basics. I'm way past that if you get my drift.

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post #34 of 47 Old 09-21-2013, 06:09 PM
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The pair valve it used to have never ticked either. It was vacuum actuated. No solenoid, just a simple diaphragm actuator.
Thank YOU! No solenoid is it? Vacuum was the move? On high vac, who is closed? On WOT, does the emissions shut off? The parts have changed, but not the signals under load.

Are we on the same page yet?


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I don't think so!

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post #35 of 47 Old 09-21-2013, 06:31 PM
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Thank YOU! No solenoid is it? Vacuum was the move? On high vac, who is closed? On WOT, does the emissions shut off? The parts have changed, but not the signals under load.

Are we on the same page yet?


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I don't think so!
More clarification:

the parts did not change, the parts were removed.

on WOT the emissions do not shut off, nor do they ever turn on. they are physically removed from the bike. completely out of the system. when under load, the ecu does what it always did, but the end result is dependent on the set up/tune. anywhere from rich to stoich to lean.

The oxygen sensor on the bike is not in any way connected to the ecu or emissions systems. There are no emission systems left on the bike.

the signals under load have not changed, but those signals are irrelevant because they never make it to the injectors.

there is no direct connection between the ecu and injectors. there is no feedback at all from the exhaust stream to the ecu.

the signals are intercepted and overridden. that is the function of a power commander.

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post #36 of 47 Old 09-21-2013, 06:40 PM
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It's an old fashioned dick measuring contest!

Step right up boys! Put 'em on the table and let's see who's packin'!

Except you're both sportin' 6 inchers it's just ones trying say theirs is 6" and the other is claiming 152.4mm. Get over it guys, you're both awesome but no one else really gives a shit.
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post #37 of 47 Old 09-21-2013, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
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It's an old fashioned dick measuring contest!

Step right up boys! Put 'em on the table and let's see who's packin'!

Except you're both sportin' 6 inchers it's just ones trying say theirs is 6" and the other is claiming 152.4mm. Get over it guys, you're both awesome but no one else really gives a shit.
Looks like hubz has the smallest dick , trying to argue a point that he doesn't know /he doesn't want to know shit as he's to bizzy thinking / ignoring posts that fck him up !!
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post #38 of 47 Old 09-21-2013, 08:07 PM
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Guys,guys, hold on. I'm establishing an abstract. I am clarifying a move. Yes, I understand the parts are missing. That's not my point. My point was: Low is the 02/high is open loop.

If one sees the bold lettering it said basically, "I am under heavy vacuum. I am an old mechanical gate and flap under low loads, but the vacuum is so strong, I close and hold at that vacuum unit lift."

That means the 02 does not run a constant stoic. That one load event changed as in a different fueling to rich, not remains stoic.

The has nothing to do with dicks floating in the poo: who's shrunk more? This is the laughing of the info on the net I find. The basics all in a knot. YOu removed a racing trick. That PAIR is NASCAR as if nothing has changed at that gate, or the solenoid I have on video that shuts off I heavy load the throttle. Different parts, same exact theory. {Pointed finger icon laughing at the PAIR shutter offers)

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post #39 of 47 Old 09-21-2013, 09:26 PM Thread Starter
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Guys,guys, hold on. I'm establishing an abstract. I am clarifying a move. Yes, I understand the parts are missing. That's not my point. My point was: Low is the 02/high is open loop.

If one sees the bold lettering it said basically, "I am under heavy vacuum. I am an old mechanical gate and flap under low loads, but the vacuum is so strong, I close and hold at that vacuum unit lift."

That means the 02 does not run a constant stoic. That one load event changed as in a different fueling to rich, not remains stoic.

The has nothing to do with dicks floating in the poo: who's shrunk more? This is the laughing of the info on the net I find. The basics all in a knot. YOu removed a racing trick. That PAIR is NASCAR as if nothing has changed at that gate, or the solenoid I have on video that shuts off I heavy load the throttle. Different parts, same exact theory. {Pointed finger icon laughing at the PAIR shutter offers)
Hubz , your establishing how much of a fool you really are ,but anyhow carry on
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post #40 of 47 Old 09-21-2013, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
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PS hubz , you remind me of the old movie (eight mile) were Eminem goes "DOBLA DOBLA !!
have a good day dude .
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post #41 of 47 Old 09-22-2013, 03:56 PM
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My question (in the first place) was can you tune the bike through all gears...
Technically, no. Unless someone hacked into the files for a 12, then no. Don't bring up a PC [can do it] or I'll laugh.


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post #42 of 47 Old 09-22-2013, 03:58 PM
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Hubz , your establishing how much of a fool you really are ,but anyhow carry on
Maybe I brought out the fools... You never know?

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post #43 of 47 Old 09-23-2013, 02:07 AM Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=hubz14;599133]Someone will correct me on this. I have zero xperience with the pc system. I'll more throw the wisdom you are thinking of
lol.
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post #44 of 47 Old 09-23-2013, 07:48 AM
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[QUOTE=maxumis;599446]
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Originally Posted by hubz14 View Post
Someone will correct me on this. I have zero xperience with the pc system. I'll more throw the wisdom you are thinking of
lol.
I do have the Woolich Racing box however. Man do I see gear maps. Does the pc hook up to the KDS (kawi diagnostic system) like the Wooly? No.

Do I get the last laugh?

NOLTT,

Signed

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post #45 of 47 Old 09-24-2013, 01:02 AM Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=hubz14;599464]
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Originally Posted by maxumis View Post

I do have the Woolich Racing box however. Man do I see gear maps. Does the pc hook up to the KDS (kawi diagnostic system) like the Wooly? No.

Do I get the last laugh?

NOLTT,

Signed
Why didn't you just come out with it in the first place ? looks like a great setup but don't know it at all ? sounds like a data logger imo , can you load its info into the setup or does it need a piggy back ? PS could not find info for each gear tuning ?
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