End of a Chapter 1 - Kawasaki Forum :: KawasakiWorld.com
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 14 Old 02-05-2013, 07:51 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 1,943
End of a Chapter 1

This video is a compilation of gathering data, or more figuring out basic computer steps. Other cuts might be some point of arguing the tech on line. Without the wisdom of some guys on line and the help of say a few sponsors giving up their parts, I would have never found the output I was looking for.

She told me plenty and is now up for sale. The bike has come away with 220psi after all the R&D. Some of the 27k [on the speedo] was part of that learning curve. Each ride was exploited someway, somehow. Whatever I came up with, each wire/ecu/throttle body has a story.

Watt I put myself thru I'd do exactly the same again. It's how I found my answer and then some! So after one aborted run after the other; matching rpm moves where traffic slows you down; the man around the corner keeps you from making this secret spot your personal laboratory; you gathered watt input you could.

The bike is all back together with fresh plastic sort of. The research was for diagnostic purposes only, as was buying the aprilia. Just to mess with the 02 system and that auto-idle system. It's time to fondle the K-skid telemetry, their auto-idle system, w/ABS; are the next R&D steps: to school myself once again. I sort of formulated a lot of basic steps from start to finish, computer bike wise. I didn't have that much info just a few years ago. It seems only yesterday I was entertaining myself with the penultimate number that makes it all work.

The only way to explain what I went thru was this serendipity happening over and over. One step lead to another step. So between my nephew taking over the place with his piles, we build a few of his bikes during that time span. Meanwhile, I'm getting kicked off harley and aprilia websites one after the other during this time too; just for the sport of it. This is more like a Salvador Dali painting but in video fourmat.

Signed,

NOLTT (no one listens to turtle)


P.S. Ivan, if you're lurking... Why not sign up? I was trying to ask you something someplace else. Care to continue the conversation?

Known to be at tech thread abuser. I like lying to animals too.
hubz14 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 02-05-2013, 10:17 AM
Senior Member
 
hagrid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 577
Capt H rides again... love it!
hagrid is offline  
post #3 of 14 Old 02-05-2013, 12:03 PM
Senior Member
 
joker14n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: whittier, ca
Posts: 287
Send a message via Yahoo to joker14n
Hubz...you're fuckin' killin' me !
I feel like I must watch the video in order to try to extract some tidbit of malformed brilliance, only to find (yet again) that the stuff you post can leave me with many more questions than answers.
I'd like my 13:43 back please

sincerely,

Confused but Hopeful
joker14n is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 14 Old 02-06-2013, 05:15 AM
Senior Member
 
my12r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pure Bred Minnestrohtan
Posts: 4,247
Jonny 5 ALIVE!!!

NEED INPUT!....NEED MORE INPUT!!!!

"In a world full of hate.....There is nothing left to divide."
T. J. Maiden ca. 1994


What's wrong with you people? The sky is MANY colors throughout the day....not JUST BLUE!
my12r is offline  
post #5 of 14 Old 02-06-2013, 06:31 AM
Senior Member
 
hagrid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 577
The real question is, "How many brewskis please?"
hagrid is offline  
post #6 of 14 Old 02-06-2013, 07:32 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 1,943
My brain WAS fixated and still is on DFI. You need to walk in a dreamweaver kind of layer over layer kind of. It's seeing that 3-D map sitting on a square grid. It is more of me trying to figure out their abstract way of explaining it. What if I walked the constant? The constant meaning: how many times the sensors along with the black box, sort of math or sing along to one number? This sort of separates the more air thinkers from the same air in the glass kind of thinkers you go porting headsandshit, and don't forget the air cleaner change too.

If this does not make sense, walks the talk, explains the constant, this is the #1 step, or the rest of your diagnosing is lost, IMO. No matter how I see it, I am handcuffed to the constant. So ask yourself if this first part of understanding the computer bike makes sense, you begin with the very first number needed to work the puzzle of many:

14.7 is our own bubble we live in.
14.7 is inside the room as in the garage as is inside that exhaust pipe.
14.7 is going to be blown out of that pipe but that same number is heading back in is ZERO [see the needle swing slow?] so take your pick.
14.7 is going to be sitting in that cylinder chamber like filling water to the top of a glass.
14.7 is going to expand from a heat source and that heat will make HP.
14.7 is going to contract as it cools as if you can create or destroy that number(s) - Sea low how it swims is that needle swingay-ding-ding!?
14.7 is going to exit the exhaust side and back in comes the back-pressure number IS?


So the question is, does it make any sense at all about who is [1 number] being the bottom line baysick step the computer needs? And no, you may not have your reading minutes back either. Your call clicking the hubbish being the author> should have been fair warning

Signed,

NOLTT [pats its shell]

Known to be at tech thread abuser. I like lying to animals too.
hubz14 is offline  
post #7 of 14 Old 02-06-2013, 08:01 AM
Senior Member
 
my12r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pure Bred Minnestrohtan
Posts: 4,247
I can blow a hole in your 14.7 now buddy!!!...

14.7 psi is at sea level. If you live at sea level, this is the number you go by.

My current elevation ABOVE sea level is 986 feet (per GPS) so let's say 1,000 feet. My "constant number" is now 14.2 psi.

I knew I would think of it someday!...haha. Takes me a while sometimes.

Air Pressure and Altitude above Sea Level


"In a world full of hate.....There is nothing left to divide."
T. J. Maiden ca. 1994


What's wrong with you people? The sky is MANY colors throughout the day....not JUST BLUE!
my12r is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 02-06-2013, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 1,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by my12r View Post
I can blow a hole in your 14.7 now buddy!!!...
Lets see if you did, shall we?

Yes, the APS (air pressure sensor) for the FI to work a fuel trim is going to follow you up/down in elevation. Why? Because the pressure sensor is preset at 1 atmosphere and now the elevation change begins = Open loop.

Closed Loop = The 02 Sensor. It's that you did not lower the glasses level of liquid per say. That remains the constant. However, the molecules are expanded, meaning, less air to fall like a domino close to each other. That's where you change fuel to air ratios being now set at 14.2. Same as the 02 is sensing a lot of gas that is not exploding, i.e., runs rich, correct? Did this make sense so far?

So under working conditions of that sensor, if it does not send in a range of between 100mmHg to 900mmHg, the ECU takes action. Those are your numbers that are flying in as you move from one range of mount slopes to the valley's floor and so on.

Now, what happens if the sensor fails? Guess WATThe Number IS used

It defaults to the Penultimate Number = 760mmHG

And your homework assignment is to show you not to mess withengineering YOU ARE HANDCUFFED TOO! Do you get it yet?!

You can't corner the book. You are playing with the factory shop manual's abstract. And I'm only pointing out an absolute move on you. You knowatt that triangle clang means now?


"OOPsEa DAISY~OUCH! THAT SOB BIT ME!"

Known to be at tech thread abuser. I like lying to animals too.
hubz14 is offline  
post #9 of 14 Old 02-06-2013, 03:24 PM
Senior Member
 
hagrid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 577
I tried cornering the book but it made me put on my right signal for a left hand turn.

Word has it analog manipulation of the sensor output forces the ECU to default to failsafe values. Don't remember who taught me that... I listened to him but not many do
hagrid is offline  
post #10 of 14 Old 02-07-2013, 06:15 AM
Senior Member
 
my12r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pure Bred Minnestrohtan
Posts: 4,247
I thought we was talking real tuning wiff all the right stuffs......

My bad. I know the ECU will default....I was juss sounding smart fer a second...

"In a world full of hate.....There is nothing left to divide."
T. J. Maiden ca. 1994


What's wrong with you people? The sky is MANY colors throughout the day....not JUST BLUE!
my12r is offline  
post #11 of 14 Old 02-07-2013, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 1,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by my12r View Post
I thought we was talking real tuning wiff all the right stuffs...
It's all about the Whiff. The best gas mileage. The smoothest ride. That is part of the tuning process, no? You HAVE it right. 14.1 and 14.2 are racing numbers. If I'm not mistaken, NASCAR usually runs in that range, or at one time; carb wise. So if you think about it, I don't thing the 1atmo has changed, do you? Wink-Wink!

See, if we hit backup, we hit a lag, we hit too rich, if not, the ignition kicks in. Watch the tone wheel tooth and the black round magnet> land at each shift. We lose the linear under backup. Look at Brock'slugger. He messed with the lag plates and lost top end torque = 4 HP.

I don't care how you see it, the dyno said the mod lost hp with a lag plate, or a wire hack with 6th gear stuck in that shift window. That technically limps, cough-cough, 'so as not to damage the engine' means ignition curve along with fuel as well.

So yes, we are killing two birds with one wire snip and it's all about tuning. We need to make sure we do not enter that zone in the tuning of it. Those are seat of the pants tonesquirtsettings. I don't know how else to describe it?

All I know was being on pch and this MB was in a sporting mode. Here, I'm trying my best to catch up, and this puppy lagged until I tried grabbing as many of the hacks that were in mode off: Until I was left with one hanging. Then I could hang and read where his taillights were made. I'm sort of close to the guy now, and I see a few passengers in the back going for a ride too.

Wore his ass out just hanging with him now. It showed me I was too limpedick in the tone of it. The bike perked up with each one resetting back to reading off its own sensor. So you figure that if listening to Mule2's limp mode, it was running under that whoosh sound, where I had nothing coming out of the corners.

When you hear the difference in the non-limp, meaning, that 'analog tone' I reference to, I have to believe that the HP lost up top is still sort of a linear coming at you: are the 4 extra ponies. Because it sure felt like less of a demand on exit. It felt a lot stronger without [more throttle input meaning] or it goes nowhere [under backup] mode.

GethengineeRing of it? Something like running Ivan's gear position, removing plates like Brock did, are two tuning steps you want to avoid. I mean, that's my opinion as Brock himself explains it "all day long" another way. Make sense we were tuning the bike all the time with the handcuffersniffer kind of bike we own today?

Forking Computer Bikes! I Love'm!Hate'm!

Especially the fast Green 1's

Known to be at tech thread abuser. I like lying to animals too.
hubz14 is offline  
post #12 of 14 Old 02-07-2013, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 1,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by hagrid View Post
Word has it analog manipulation of the sensor output forces the ECU to default to failsafe values.
D'am!

Known to be at tech thread abuser. I like lying to animals too.
hubz14 is offline  
post #13 of 14 Old 02-07-2013, 12:49 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 143
How do you compensate for the decrease in exhaust back pressure and increase in exhaust scavenging as you ascend in altitude?
steell is offline  
post #14 of 14 Old 02-07-2013, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 1,943
I think I see what you're saying. It's proportional, right? If there is no air up in altitude, then you can fill the exhaust pipe with a lot more air. Kind of slows down. No push the air back into the chamber with some gusto as you're filling that end in equal proportions = Bpressure?

You know those cable driven exhaust plates inside the mid pipe is it? I think Honda has one inside a boxed up muffler? It controls that sort of matching the throttle plates. A balance like they use a balance with the crankcase ventilation. I can see it dialing in at certain cam timings to take advantage of that back pressure you mention. It's got plenty of sensors to crank that plate closed it reads an 02 or the altitude sensor [for either loop].

Known to be at tech thread abuser. I like lying to animals too.
hubz14 is offline  
Reply

  Kawasaki Forum :: KawasakiWorld.com > Kawasaki World > Racing

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki Forum :: KawasakiWorld.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome