It will be interesting to see how your system compares to the new dry kit that Ryan Schnitz is offering (supposed to be on their website next week ~$350).



Previously I had planned to install an NX fogger kit (same they sell for the Busas') when I take the head off for my 1361 install, but this talk about dry systems has me reconsidering because I do not plan to spray more than 40hp, where as the NX fogger is adjustable to 100hp but it's also twice the cost.



</p>

redbusakiller:



No I never had two bottle because it is too hard heat two, but they will fit measured them.



dbtcsrd:



You mean his compared to mine, my kit has been on my bike for two years and no problems.

His kit is $350.00 for 200 hp, my kit is 250 hp for $300.00 and i'm not making money on mine I'm giving up parts list and instructions free. Guess I get the back seat because my name is not Shnitz or Muzzy or Pingel. Oh well to each there own later boys. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

I hope this isnt turing into something that everyone is going to pick apart..Its proven to me that Kings system works and has been in use for quite sometime. I may be reading things into this but everyone seems to have a way to make his kit better, or just find fault in it..

I say congrats King on your design and on proven results. This winter I would be happy to buy the kit and pay for the time you have taken to design the it...Once again hats off to ya and thanks for sharing the info with the rest of us..<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

I think people may be concerned that it looks like a piece of cake bolt on project with no chance of problems.

I am not an expert, but there are a number of situations that could result in hurting your engine. If there is not enough full for what ever reason you can burn pistons, there have been situations were backfiring has caused damage. The ZX-12R design may reduce these possibilities, but people should take a NOS installation seriously and treat it with respect.



I personally don't know enough about NOS to determine if a system is safe or not, I rely on people that have done it and know better. However any huge HP gains should be treated with respect. It is good to get "constructive" criticism. It just keeps everyone on the up and up, and maybe even points out areas that can be improved.



Keep up the great discussions about NOS, pros and cons are all very informative.



Easyrider

easyrider@zx-12r.org
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Easy I think all agree with that info, like I have said further back if you are not sure don't go 250 hp just put the 50 shot. This setup is in a couple of magazines and is proven to work, Paul Penzo from Cycle Canada never rode a nitrous bike in his life and he loved it basically fool proof. Like any mod bigbore kit, stroker kit, turbo kit, or whatever even on a stock bike you can have problems so if you worry yourself to death about everything then no info in the world will sufice. I'm giving up this info for free, I don't expect anything in return but for everyone to have the same power enjoyment I have been playing with for two years. lawson4@axxent.ca or 416-743-3683 home phone number that is how sure I am guys posting my home phone on the web. Anything I can help with I will. Don't forget this is a stock bike with exhaust, no clutch work or filter mod stock bike,STOCK with exhaust. Best mod for the money in my opinion the jury rests it's case thank you. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

Easy how many strings have 7 pages and over 1500 hits in a month? This is good I don't think there has been any negative remarks only a couple of cautions, and that's always good it keeps us alive. Sorry to all the busa guys but your going to get spanked bigtime next summer hee hee. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

next summer??? who in the hell is going to wait for next summer?? im in Houston Texas where it doesnt get that cold and we can ride year round WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

<font color="0000ff"><marquee>WWW.InsaneCyclePosse.com</font color="0000ff"></marquee>
</p>

This is definitely a great thread with lots of good discussion.

I think there was a definite need to discuss NOS on the ZX12R. People are ready for more power. It is great to have a discussion like this where people can ask questions and get comfortable with an area that has otherwise intimidated a lot of people (including me). I was scared of NOS before, but I have learned a lot about it in the last couple of weeks. I didn't even know there was a dry and wet method before. It is really interesting.



It would be interesting to get someone on here that has a wet system to get an idea of the cost and any pros and cons. The Kingzx12r dry system is certainly a cost effective approach.

From what I have been able to understand there seems to be different camps with respect to building power.

- build a naturally aspirated engine camp

- build the engine with a turbocharger

- build the engine with a supercharger (small camp)

- build the engine with a wet NOS system

- build the engine with a dry NOS system

- build the engine with a turbo/super charger and NOS and anything short of solid fuel rocket boosters camp <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">



Everyone seems to stick to their method and have reasons why it is the best in their situation. The different camps have HP limits based on what stock parts they use, they have various levels of cash layout and offer power with different curves and levels.



As long as people are safe and have fun then it is all good.





easyrider@zx-12r.org
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the power the Zx-12r is making is on the boardline unusable power in stock form. As it is, you can not use any of the EXTRA power until your clear of a ton, or more.

Ah, who the F@#K am I kidding, if I had the dosh, I'd be riding a 1361cc turbocharged nitro boosted BEAST!!



Of course it would be Silver. It disappears over 100.........



Later............................................. ..../

</p>

Rocket fuel you say hmmmm. I hope it's all fun and safe that is the whole point, and that's why I designed the kit for FUN FUN FUN. And busa ass kickin of course. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

can we control the amount of hp we get? this set up is good for about 75hp correct?

</p>

Yes there are a couple ways of controlling it, prssure in the bottle or by size of jets. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

What Jet sizes did you use?

2lb bottle, but...can I use two 1lb bottles instead?

(Don’t really want to butcher my seat.)

Throttle-switch...I'll probably just make my own.

Two 16020 NOS solenoids

Cables to attach it all



Anything else? (Jet sizes?)

LMK

Thanks



</p>

How do we go about receiving the parts list and instructions? My email is bergie@dragike.com if you can forward I would greatly appreciate it!



Just updated the email link to make it work. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub56.ezboard.com/ueasyrider.showPublicProfile?language=EN>easyrider </A>* at: 11/3/01 12:52:55 pm

thanks king & easy nice pics

</p>

www.nitrous.info/

</p>

Welcome back, give me a call-need to talk.



Later............................................. ..../

</p>

Easy..... when do you expect to have the parts list and instructions posted on the site?





</p>

Hey KNGZX12R ... could I use a couple of 8 OZ sneaker bottles instead if two 1 lb bottles. I currently have my yosh ems box and yellow box mounted where you have the nitro bottles. I would like to avoid cutting up the rear box and seat if possible. I realize that smaller bottles would mean more frequent refills, but I am used to that with the 12's milage anyway! LOL ... Would this affect your setup? If this is not possible, do you have any other ideas for mounting of the bottle(s)? Maybe I could just wear a backpack with a 10 lb bottle in it!



I can hardly wait to see the instructions and parts list!

</p>

The pictures are posted on the site on Wayne Lawsons Project bike page.



I have not received the instructions yet, but will post them when Wayne is done.



Easyrider

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KingZX12r: As I probably speak for a lot of people, I really appreciate all of your work you are doing for us ZX12R rider's... For taking the time to take pics' and for the instructions of your system without wanting a penny... Hat's off to ya....



BTW... Has anyone else receive in the mail from Kawasaki a book all about the makings of the ZX12R... I received mine today in the mail and I can't believe Kawasaki sent that out... Not to sound like a bitch, "No offence lady riders" but that was nice of them. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> One down fall of the book.... They only have pics of the silver 12.... That must have been the only color left in the plant because all of the red and green were shipped because of the demand for them... <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol">

</p>

Last year everyone got the book.

It is nice to know it is still being given out.

A link to the book is linked on www.zx-12r.org

www.xs4all.nl/~zx11/zx12r/tests/silverbook.htm

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Yeah hat's off to King. I mean only a true standup guy would put is home phone # on the web for guys (gals) to call & bug him with questions about N20 setups. (Not to mention the emails I'm sure he gets with the same questions!)



We should probably take up a collection & give it to him so he can buy his wife a nice present. Since he's spending a lot of time educating us, I'm sure it would score him some points with the wifey. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> The only catch would be...that he must use the fund$ to get a nice gift for his wife. (Not extra N20!!) -<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">



As far as the Kawasaki book goes...I'm really impressed with KHI. They took alot of crap from motorcycle journalists (Who can't even begin to fathom or even make an attempt to comprehend the engineering/effort/technology put into the zx12r!)

KHI continues to define/redefine the performance edge.

Politics made them implement speed restrictions, but thats just the world we live in.

The 2000 zx-12r is a special M/C (last of the "officially" unrestricted high performance bikes) & the book was a nice touch. It let me know the bike was designed with more than just numbers & specs, it was designed with the spirit/heart of champions. (The smallest of the four M/C companies in Japan, has constantly produced equipment that sets the standard for years to come, tell me these guys/gals at KHI are true champions in heart/soul & in reality.)

Hats off to Kawasaki (KHI), keep up the good work, it is appreciated by most.



</p>

Thanks man that's very nice of you to say, I really don't want anything except to share the cadbury secret. If we get enough 12r's hooked on the juice like I am then all that is left to do is start kickin some bigtime hyaloser butt! If you want to do something for me help pick a spot for the spring BBQ I'd like to meet some more of the maniacs hee hee. I don't think I can score any brownie points with the wife, it's going to take all winter for her to relax and then spring is here gone for another six months hee hee. Sad and happy day today, last event of the year Honda import and bike challenge (I won) defending kawis honor against the evils that lurk out there. Maybee now I can sit down and finish the instructions, that would be a damn good idea. Talk to ya'll later. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

It's not who you know, it's how fast you go hee hee. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

I've been thinking King I only want 25 to 30 horse boost is that possible?? I'm also thinking long term.. that would not be a destructive as a big shot of NOS would it????

THE GREEN MONSTER!!!!!</p>

No problem you can put one stage which will make 210hp at 900 psi bottle pressure if your stock motor makes 170 hp. A number 28 jet will do this for you, as far as less destuctive there is nothing destructive about nitrous as long as you set it up properly. If you are in doubt check back to the article on my bike 12000 miles plus with over 5000 dollars of nitrous through this motor at 250 hp, this is a bone stock bike with exhaust NO PC3 don't worry be happy. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

One lb bottle would be ok, I would put a bigger line in to hold a bit more juice if you went from the dash-4 to a dash-8 with reducers at each end you should get almost an extra lb in the bigger line. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

I have a dumb question king. I have a muzzy air shifter is it possible to use the same bottle to spray with?



Chromed out 12

</p>

Actually yes you could, two things you need to do.



1) you need a regulator for the purpose of lowering your nitrous pressure to a usable pressure for your air shifter. 900 psi regulated down to 100 psi I believe shnitz sells such a beast.



2) you need to change your air lines for your air shifter ti braided line for obvious reasons too damn much pressure for plastic hee hee.



That should do you, you may want to consider a nitrous valve so you can charge the system without taking it out if the bike, make life a little easier at the track. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

KingZX12R,



Obviously you have suffered few problems with the nitrous kit you have installed into your stock bike. So it must be running right.



But, i have a question.



I was speaking to Brad here in the UK from DynoSpeed Developments (brilliant!) who reminded me of something we found out about my bike. He and wayne are the guys who did the dyno tuning of my 12R. They are probably thee guys in the know over here re dry nitrous systems and develop tried and trusted systems for the Hayabusa with all the "safety" mods built in.



When i was getting my 12 done on the dyno, I had mentioned that i may be interested in doing nitrous over the winter. So he did a test on the dyno re fueling just to see how much hp the bike could potentially put out before the fuel pressure would be insufficient to meet the bike's demand.



The maximum hp the stock fuel pump of the 12 can maintain is 220hp. Anything over that will need higher fuel pressure.



So even if the ecu does compensate for the temperature change, or you factor in huge quantities of fuel via the pc3r, the stock pump cannot deliver it over 220hp. This obviously means the bike must lean out with the 250hp kit, according to this data on my bike at least.



He also mentioned that there may be a problem with the airbox sensor as well. He says if the temp drops below -27 degrees, the ecu automatically trips a cold start map which advances the timing. And, as you know, advanced timing and nitrous go together like Eggster and speed.



Dont think I'm knocking you, i just want to get my head round this as best i can before deciding if i go down the nitrous route (probably the only way i'll see 200 without spending serious dosharoonies).



Have you found anything to the contrary on the dyno? Did you find any evidence of lean out?



Thanks.



FK







</p>

Ok first thing, I know that demands on the motor with fuel adjustments on the PC3 are limited to produce 200 hp. Please remember that my bike does not have it, I am running on the stock ECM fuel maps which are capable of producing just shy of 270 hp.



With the PC3 you can override the fuel demands to a point where the stock injectors go static, this means that you are demanding fuel at a point where the pulse remains nearly constant. If you put a demand that requires the injector pulse to become such that the injector stays open for the duration of the wide open throttle then you will definitly reduce the max or peak amount of power that the system can handle.



The same holds true if you can find a way to increase fuel pressure on the stock pump, the same limiting factors come into play. The nitrous setup does not come near the -27 degrees so the fear of timing change is nothing to worry about. If you are concerned it is not a problem Muzzy makes an upgrade pump for the 12, if that helps your piece of mind you can go that route.



Don't forget that this bike has been set up this way for two years of abuse, I can safely say that I have put easily $5000.00 of nitrous through my bike. My sponsor can verify this he knows how much I go through and is amazed with the durabilty.



And I never think anyone is knocking me so don't worry about that, if anyone ever wants to come by or see me at any event, I have probably let 200 guys try this bike. The usuall response is a head shake and a comment of you da man that thing is insane.



Watch for the Jan issue Cycle Canada Mag about the shootout with me and Rob you'll see the numbers in print. And Rob rode the bike too and made some helpfull comments that I will change for the rematch. I think he was skepticle till he rode it.



Take care and ask away, I have no problems answering questions related to the 12, I am confident of the kit I designed and have proved it to many doubters, later guys. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

So King you are saying with the PC-3 I will not be getting enough fuel for the nitrous setup? If that is the case and I need to solder in the resistor I can and will but would I still be able to use my PC-3 with it?

<font color="0000ff"><marquee>WWW.InsaneCyclePosse.com</font color="0000ff"></marquee>
</p>

Ok first thing, I know that demands on the motor with fuel adjustments on the PC3 are limited to produce 200 hp. Please remember that my bike does not have it, I am running on the stock ECM fuel maps which are capable of producing just shy of 270 hp.





???

Are you saying that by putting on a Power Commander you are throwing away 70hp of potential? The Power Commander will add fuel up to 100% duty cycle (injectors always on) at that point you can't get any more fuel to the motor. I guess I don't understand your above statement, could you break it down for me barney style?

</p>

If you want to use the power commander to adapt fuel directly related to the nitrous the immediate demand is more than the pump can handle, if you use the stock sensors and let the ECM fuel maps adjust they will compensate with out stressing the pump at a progressive rate. Sorry I may have explained it a bit wrong does this clear it up? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

Fury:



Sorry yes you can use the PC3 with the resistor, you don't need it but I'm not sure exactly what fuel changes you need to make. If you load Cliffs map you should be fine, or any map that allows the bike to run as it would with the stock exhaust no flat spots or surges. You guys keep me on my toes that's for sure. I wish I was in Florida for the races. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

KIng,

Where are you located? And who did the work on your bike?



Chromed out 12

</p>

I'm in Toronto Canada, if you click on my name it tells you. lawson4@axxent.ca home ph.#416-743-3683 try not to call too late kids in bed by 11 pm ontario time.

</p>

I did the work and the nitrous design, sponsor stuff was stuff that was given to me tires, machine work etc.

</p>

I will be calling you today. Hopefully before the Bears and Green Bay game. Go Chicago!!!



Chromed out 12

</p>

Nice talkin to you are you going to make it to the spring bbq? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

Parts list should be up soon easy has it if anyone wants a copy now e-mail me at home lawson4@axxent.ca <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

Won't be long now.Gotta check the installation process and see if I can handle it.That extra kick has to be unreal.

</p>

The list is up.



Check out www.zx-12r.org/Motorcycle_info/Motorcycle%20pictures/TeamLawson/TeamLawsonZX12RNosSystem.htm



It is under the Performance Upgrades >> NOS Systems section, or off of Wayne Lawson's Project Bike page.



Have fun guys, the instructions should be coming soon. Thanks Kingzx12r



Play safe,



Easyrider

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easy,

you might want to check the price of the 1/8 steel x 36" tube $110.40 seems kind of high for a 3 ft piece of tubing. Especially considering the us dollar is lower than the canadian dollar. ie. $17.33 vs. $110.40 <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/indifferent.gif ALT=":|">



later

</p>

I think it's 10 dollars and change maybee I did it I'll check.

</p>

thanks king, 10 bucks sounds more like it. I was getting discouraged when I saw the 450 dollar total! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

I think I did it minus 100 bucks I'll let easy know should check before I send stuff what a dumbass I am! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

Looks like my guy has the best price so far, let's see what happens. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

Hey King, my hat's off to you. Thanks for all your efforts & help with the N2O info. & Thanks for helping us find the best prices on the "needed" equipment. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

No problemo any way I can help let me know. Apperently Shnitz now has a 200 hp kit.

</p>

This is off topic maybee we can have the BBQ at the same time as the black hill deal. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

sounds good to me King, you gonna make it to the hills?

</p>

I would like to, let's go to the string it's on don't want to change subject on this page.

</p>

NOS,NOS,NOS,NOS,NOS,NOS,NOS,NOS,NOS,NOS,NOS,NOS,NO S,NOS, if in doubt return to start hee hee.....<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

Hey King.. How are those instructions coming along???

</p>

Still working on it. problem is I'm also trying to set up my sponsorship stuff too. I don't know if anyone knows how hard it is to get stuff for free, trust me it ain't easy. I am trying hopefully in the next few days thanks for the patience. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

Working on it again today it's coming!!!!

</p>

Just so you know I did not forget and yes I am working on the instructions still. Sorry for taking so long but I'm working on it. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

I know what you mean about being busy.

I have been swamped lately.

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